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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2011 :  10:30:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
right. It's all apples to oranges really.

McStadium isn't going to see a 25% increase, like you said, because it wasn't built to hold more.

The Truck Stop likely won't see more because of those wild fluctuations where you'd get average crowds of 3-5k on weeknights, but then 15k on a fireworks night because they had alot of groups and even gave away some tickets. Those wild fluctuations aren't the way to do business either though. I attended some games with huge walkup at the Blatt and they were miserable. The stadium sometimes seemed to not be planning for a big crowd so half the concession stands were closed and lines took a half hour to get a hot dog.

Werner gives them security in knowing what kind of crowd they are going to have, what kind of staffing they need, etc.

Some people point to Werner being a mild failure because the total attendance increase is going to be about 3% and they say most stadiums have a 25% increase. Well, if you want to be fair about that, how many teams go from a 25k stadium and downsize to a 9k stadium? There are likely very few instances of that. So, a 25% increase isn't even possible at Werner.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2011 :  08:59:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Saw on another website that Barley's, which is right by McStadium is either closing or closed.

Greg
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buetane
All-Star Mav

Iceland
2568 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2011 :  1:07:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Never heard of it. So that could be why too.
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2011 :  1:13:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

Saw on another website that Barley's, which is right by McStadium is either closing or closed.

Greg



Yep, lack of sales...they did about 60-65% of what they needed to to stay open. Same guy owns a bar in Council Bluffs. Stinks that they couldn't make it longer to have a chance to be there for one full year.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2011 :  1:38:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I read during the CWS that they had a bunch of stuff set up with vendors and such in the parking lot but the crowds never came.

Greg
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Bigredmed
Senior Mav

1574 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2011 :  2:55:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

I read during the CWS that they had a bunch of stuff set up with vendors and such in the parking lot but the crowds never came.

Greg



My wife and I drive home from hockey past this place every game and it always looked closed. Also kind of poor advertising. I finally find out what it is when its closing.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2011 :  9:38:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

Saw on another website that Barley's, which is right by McStadium is either closing or closed.

Greg



Yep, lack of sales...they did about 60-65% of what they needed to to stay open. Same guy owns a bar in Council Bluffs. Stinks that they couldn't make it longer to have a chance to be there for one full year.


Barley's on Cuming St. has been open since 2008. I've heard they've really struggled to make a go of it ever since opening, much like their predecessors at InPlay. You hear much more buzz about the other restaurants in the area: Union Pizzeria, Goodnights, and Mattress Factory. I don't know that Barley's ever shook the stigma of InPlay...

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2011 :  08:27:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Goodnights is another one that seems to really struggle at times. Hopefully they got big enough crowds during ths CWS to sustain.

Greg
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  08:24:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Heard Roger Dixon on the radio this morning. They're meeting with LiveNation after Labor Day to plan next year's Red Sky. Sounds like most of the adjustments will be in the festival area. They're waiting to hear from the UFL on their future and should know something within two weeks. Sounds like there is one other football game planned for TD.

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  10:40:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
high school game? I have no idea what else it could be.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  11:28:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I figured high school game as well. If the UFL folds before this season, that's a little rough on MECA setting up McStadium for football for one game.

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  11:45:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was thinking the exact same thing. Outside of the experience of setting the place up for football that such a game would provide to the staff, I can't imagine that one single Central vs. Prep football game would bring in enough revenue to offset the wear and tear it would put on the field. Ouch. If the UFL doesn't play, it would make more sense to cancel such a game and move it back on campus. I still think there's a 60/40 chance the UFL will limp through this year though.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  12:20:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think it's closer to 80% likely the UFL plays. An awful lot of money has been expended on the season so far that I think it's unlikely that the Nighthawks don't play. Those sunk costs are there no matter what they do, so now it's a question whether the league will take in more in revenues than it'll take to move forward from here.

As for getting TD Ameritrade into shape for football, it depends on whether they sod the infield or not. If they don't sod the infield, the only cost to playing football is painting yard line markers and installing goal posts...which I bet MECA already purchased. So playing a high school game shouldn't be an issue. The pitching mound was removed for Red Sky, and there was enough wear and tear on the field that MECA's groundskeepers have to do some maintenance work on the field anyway.

And since MECA hasn't done anything to put down sod, I assume they are waiting for the word from the UFL.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  12:34:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll stick to 60/40 because not every team can bank on good crowds during the season to help them stop the bleeding. Even if there are sunk costs, some of these teams simply don't have the money to stay afloat like we're learning from Hartford. Omaha is the most profitable franchise and we saw last year how they couldn't pay their bills around the city. Who is going to be willing to do business with them this year without cash up front? Do they have said cash? Has the league gotten its work comp issue resolved? Will Omaha have enough other teams to play to make it worth it or will many of them fold? Has this financial fiasco they've found themselves in and resulting uncertainty about the season affected their single game ticket sales?

Those are all questions that need to be answered before I get too cheery on the subject. I think it's more likely they plan than not, but I'm not willing to go 80%.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  2:39:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure what they odds are. My guts says they probably play. I know they've spent some money up to know but I would assume the really big expenditures (insurance for the season, travel, salaries, etc) are still ahead. If they have no prospects of additional investors, the NFL stepping in, or a real broadcast partner they might just pack it in. Sounds like Mark Cuban has seen the operation and passed.

Greg
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mrkaline
Mav Scout in Indiana

Poland
1475 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  9:05:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why would a lack of revenue to cover costs stop something from continuing to lose money? Just raise the debt ceiling UFL, geez. :-)
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  10:02:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mrkaline

Why would a lack of revenue to cover costs stop something from continuing to lose money? Just raise the debt ceiling UFL, geez. :-)



If they can get the chinese to "invest" in their product, you might have a good idea.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2011 :  11:06:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just saw the Chaser's will hit 12 million fans this weekend as a franchise. We'll be at tonights game.

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2011 :  3:07:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
as will I.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2011 :  1:15:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tried Goodnights Saturday night. Great pizza. Really top notch, but yeah, the place was really empty.
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CaseyMav
#10

Botswana
2337 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2011 :  3:07:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I suppose Red Sky did better than this: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/vampire-weekends-only-2011-show-has-been-cancelled-20110809

---
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2011 :  10:22:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Nighthawks will play...

quote:
The United Football League will go ahead with its third season, despite losing more than $100 million in its first two years.

Commissioner Michael Huyghue wrote “we will play” in a text message to The Associated Press on Tuesday night.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/ufl-commissioner-tells-ap-2011-season-will-be-played-details-to-be-released-wednesday/2011/08/09/gIQA4Zze5I_story.html



Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2011 :  08:18:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's good news. At least we get one year of their crowds DT. Will be interesting to see how many games they play. If it's still 4 or 3 if contraction occurs.

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2011 :  2:00:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
3 home games it looks like. That can't be good for revenue for a team like Omaha when you're losing one home game. Still, good to see they will play. This has to be the swan song unless their NFL hail mary gets completed.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2011 :  09:57:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shatel tries to make a case for the NFL picking up the UFL but I just don't see it. One point he makes is using it to sell the NFL in non-NFL markets. They already do that without the UFL. I just don't see the NFL taking this on then having to pay worker's comp, health insurance and whole bunch of other issues. The NFLPA would love to be negotiating for more players, no way the owners go for this in my opinion.

I am glad we get 3 more dats from them DT. I'm hoping the majority of tickets have been sold.

Heard yesterday on 1620 they were talking with Joe Moglia about what will happen with those that already bought season tickets for four games. Sounds like they are going to try and talk those people into converting the 4 ticket into a championship game ticket (had not realized Omaha got that game again, but it makes sense) or into concession dollars. If they can't sell you into those options, they will eventually give you a refund for the fourth ticket.

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2011 :  10:52:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

Shatel tries to make a case for the NFL picking up the UFL but I just don't see it. One point he makes is using it to sell the NFL in non-NFL markets. They already do that without the UFL. I just don't see the NFL taking this on then having to pay worker's comp, health insurance and whole bunch of other issues. The NFLPA would love to be negotiating for more players, no way the owners go for this in my opinion.

I am glad we get 3 more dats from them DT. I'm hoping the majority of tickets have been sold.

Heard yesterday on 1620 they were talking with Joe Moglia about what will happen with those that already bought season tickets for four games. Sounds like they are going to try and talk those people into converting the 4 ticket into a championship game ticket (had not realized Omaha got that game again, but it makes sense) or into concession dollars. If they can't sell you into those options, they will eventually give you a refund for the fourth ticket.

Greg



It'd never work, but I like Steins out of the box thinking about a semi pro football league based solely in Omaha.

Minor leagues prove that if you don't have the full faith and backing of a major league, like MLB does for the minors, you need to keep it small like the Beef.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2011 :  12:37:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shatel's article should make it very clear where the Nighthawks sit in terms of the mindset of Omahans. Will the UFL survive in 2012? It looks unlikely unless the NFL invests in it. Will they? That's another discussion.

But even Alan Stein admits it:
quote:
"What we're learning in Omaha is that there is great appeal for more football just for the sake of more football."


Omaha loves football...and the Nighthawks are still the mindset leader for professional sports in Omaha. Whether they'll be here next year is a tough question. But they'll be here this fall, and more people in this town care about the Nighthawks.

Is it a viable business model? Without finding 4 or 5 more Omahas, it looks unlikely. Frankly, I'm surprised they downsized the season to 6 games. If I were the UFL, I would have played a 9 game season, with Omaha and another location getting 5 home games, the other two cities only having four. Is it fair? No. But it increases your revenue base. Or stick with eight games and have an unbalanced schedule. Each team will have to play twice at another team's stadium. The only way that wouldn't work is if just game operations don't make sense..in which case, you pull the plug period.

We'll see how Omaha draws this season. I don't know if the UFL will survive, but I want to support something that I think is good for our city and want to give it every chance to succeed. Maybe it helps convince the NFL that there's something worth keeping. Maybe it doesn't keep the UFL alive, but maybe it convinces someone to bring the Arena League to Omaha.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2011 :  2:16:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep. You are right; however, it will really mean all of nothing at the end of the day when the Storm Chasers open, what is it, their 43rd season in Omaha next year while the moving vans and repo men will be whisking the ruins of the UFL out of Omaha.

Just sayin. All this, "Nighthawks own the hearts and minds of Omaha" stuff isn't all that important when you win the battle but lose the war...and the war is basically over. This season, unfortunately, is the death rattle for the Nighthawks.

Having a successful franchise in any sport is a marathon not a sprint and as the UFL story has proven there's many more important factors than how many fans you have.

They don't give out trophies for the horse that's leading the race at turn one. So, I don't see how anyone in the Nighthawks camp would be chest thumping right now. They will ultimately have a nice 2 year run as "kings", but unfortunately it didn't last longer.

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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2011 :  2:30:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

Shatel's article should make it very clear where the Nighthawks sit in terms of the mindset of Omahans. Will the UFL survive in 2012? It looks unlikely unless the NFL invests in it. Will they? That's another discussion.

But even Alan Stein admits it:
quote:
"What we're learning in Omaha is that there is great appeal for more football just for the sake of more football."


Omaha loves football...and the Nighthawks are still the mindset leader for professional sports in Omaha. Whether they'll be here next year is a tough question. But they'll be here this fall, and more people in this town care about the Nighthawks.

Is it a viable business model? Without finding 4 or 5 more Omahas, it looks unlikely. Frankly, I'm surprised they downsized the season to 6 games. If I were the UFL, I would have played a 9 game season, with Omaha and another location getting 5 home games, the other two cities only having four. Is it fair? No. But it increases your revenue base. Or stick with eight games and have an unbalanced schedule. Each team will have to play twice at another team's stadium. The only way that wouldn't work is if just game operations don't make sense..in which case, you pull the plug period.

We'll see how Omaha draws this season. I don't know if the UFL will survive, but I want to support something that I think is good for our city and want to give it every chance to succeed. Maybe it helps convince the NFL that there's something worth keeping. Maybe it doesn't keep the UFL alive, but maybe it convinces someone to bring the Arena League to Omaha.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com



The Nighthawks did very well for four games, the championship game struggled. I'm not sure if you ever got them to a full season of 8 games or so (or more with preason). It would also be interesting too on how well they would do if they switched to more of a developmental league and did not have the name players on their way down like Garcia and Green (those two really ignited the Nighthawks buzz around town).

I don't know about the Arena Leauge. I've been to games in KC and it's not something I'd pay to see. It's a league that already folded once even after a long time in existence.

Let's not forget UNO football. Just having football in Omaha does not guarantee success.

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2011 :  2:48:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd love to have seen if the Nighthawks could have sustained the same level of interest over 20, 30, or 40 years. Sadly, we'll likely never find out. Heck, I wonder if they'll have the same level of gate success in 2011 as they had in 2010 as the newness has worn off and perhaps some people are just not as excited about the team now that the whole saga of the leagues ineptitude has come to life.

It wasn't just the championship game that struggled. I'll say for sure, the last 2 games last year had alot of empty seats after the team went into the tank.

Omaha is a big event town but they also love winners. The nighthawks were darlings when they were new and when they were winning. They weren't as well received when they weren't playing well.

It's apples and oranges again. The Royals had problems for over a decade based on mismanagement both at the local level and based on the players provided to them by KC. they've begun to turn that around and the newfound success combined with the new stadium has them drawing better crowds. Also, if the OSC played under 5 games a year, they could market it as a big event and likely draw way more people. 70+ home games dampens the sense of urgency a bit in any market.

It kinda comes back to what I said about it being a marathon not a sprint. 4 or 7 games does not a franchise make.
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