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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2007 :  5:20:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sokol on Tom Becka right now...

He says it might take the committee 4 to 5 months to come back with a proposal...
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  07:48:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The World-Herald gathers the proof that the NCAA is the one dictating a new stadium.

quote:
On Feb. 23, city officials and Diesing made a formal Rosenblatt proposal to Dennis Poppe, the NCAA's managing director for football and baseball, in Fahey's office. The presentation was complete with flip charts and spread sheets, and Fahey and Diesing believed that it went well.

Then came the NCAA's response on March 12. The NCAA had a totally different concept:

"Build a new state-of-the-art facility to host the Men's College World Series in a location near downtown Omaha," the NCAA wrote in a memo to CWS Inc. "Not doing so amounts to putting an expensive band-aid over what ails aging Rosenblatt Stadium."

quote:
On June 24, the NCAA wrote another memo, this time addressing both the downtown stadium plan and the proposed $26 million Rosenblatt renovation.

On Rosenblatt, the NCAA wrote: "There are limitations to Rosenblatt Stadium that are not addressed by the proposed renovation plan." The NCAA then gave an extensive list of problems from narrow concourses to the lack of a drug-testing area.

The NCAA asked whether the city was willing "to commit significantly more than the $26 million to the immediate and long-term needs of the facility."

The NCAA also raised its estimated cost of a new stadium to $100 million, noting that industry contacts consider it "more cost-effective to build a new facility rather than attempt to renovate an aging venue."

"Why would we not pursue the construction of a new stadium given this opinion from the industry?" the NCAA asked in the memo.

Then, on Aug. 28, a more detailed plan for a new stadium north of the convention center and arena was presented to a team of NCAA officials.

On Sept. 14, the NCAA response arrived. While taking no position on where a new stadium should be situated, the NCAA endorsed Omaha's plans. The city and CWS Inc. "have listened to the NCAA's stated needs for the College World Series," it said.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10156330&u_rss=1&

Councilmen, Mr. Sokol, Save Rosenblatt, please. Stop screwing around and figure out a way to get this thing done. Your complaints and positions have been exposed.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  08:00:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
More importantly, I was right again.

Ya'all should listen to me more often.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.huskerh8er.com (and don't forget to visit www.zebrahead.com/news)
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  08:52:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Sokol's role was to raise the $15 million to $16 million in private funds needed to go with $10 million in city tax dollars.

But in December, Sokol dropped out of the effort in a dispute with Fahey over whether MECA, which operates the Qwest Center Omaha, would also take over management of Rosenblatt. Fahey wanted to change the makeup of the MECA board, and Sokol said that would be tantamount to turning "MECA into a branch of city government."


The above quote probably explains MECA's reluctance in recent proceedings.

I will say one thing...

This should have been handled better out of the box and there should have been more transparency when revealing some of these details last spring (prior to this year's CWS).

I think they'll come up with a nice plan in the next few months. Unfortunately, the whole process has soured a lot of people.

And people will always wonder -- whether it was realistic or not -- if we could have secured the CWS for 10 years (by spending $26 million) had a committee been in place before the negotations began in 2006.

Obviously, it is always preferrable to build new as opposed to renovating or retrofitting.

I personally hope the NCAA has been following all of this. Frankly, I was getting somewhat tired of them "upping the ante" every few weeks.

When the city proposed the idea of a $50 million facility with 10,000 fixed seats (with temp seats for the CWS), I thought it was a great idea and supported it -- as did many others. Then we heard a bunch of hand-wringing on their part and the number jumped closer to 30,000 seats and the price skyrocketed.

Hopefully all of the recent public disgruntlement will cause the NCAA to "shut up" and be thankful that a city -- that doesn't even support its minor league baseball team -- is willing to spend $120 million on a ballpark for a 10-day event.

No other city in North America would do that.

Maybe they'll stop pushing their luck.
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hackermav
Minister of Antagonism

1039 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  09:05:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
MECA, How in the world do you think you can expand an convention center that you cannot fill anyway?

Book it more, and make yourself profitable to the point of no longer needing City dollars and then maybe you can start telling us that you need more room.

Oh and who is going to pay to expand the QCO? Not MECA.

I do see that point of not being able to hold outdoor events, or at being limited, if Lot D is gone. I suggest building more parking and possibly a new city garage in the area to solve the issue.

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MavRick
A Better Fan Than You

USA
-3935 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  09:26:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are we to infer that Sokol is acting out of hurt feelings?



"Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard." Justice Robert Jackson, West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, Supreme Court of the United States (1943)
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  09:30:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We've got a nice new footbridge coming right there. Build stuff on the other side.

Annex CB.

It's the only answer.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.huskerh8er.com (and don't forget to visit www.zebrahead.com/news)
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  09:35:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MavRick

Are we to infer that Sokol is acting out of hurt feelings?





He seems to be an individual who likes to take his shovel and go home...
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dartben
Sophomore Mav

404 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  09:47:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hackermav

MECA, How in the world do you think you can expand an convention center that you cannot fill anyway?

Book it more, and make yourself profitable to the point of no longer needing City dollars and then maybe you can start telling us that you need more room.


MECA earns an operating profit on the Qwest Center. It's the original construction debt that needs (and was always going to need) city financing to pay.
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hackermav
Minister of Antagonism

1039 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  10:26:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
dartben,

Last I heard we were still suibsidizing them $1.5 million a year on top of having to pay for the damn thing.
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Bigredmed
Senior Mav

1574 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  10:48:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by admin

Kugler and Severe brought up something I hadn't thought of...

Lot D is used for events like Septemberfest and River City Roundup and the lot was built extra deep to accomodate the rides and whatnot that those events use.



David Sokol was on KFAB with Tom Becka yesterday and basically said that the condition of the 99 year lease was that lot D was not open for development other than to expand the convention center. It's purpose was to be available for expansion and for outdoor events (like Septemberfest). This is why MECA voted unanimously to oppose the site for the ball park. He also said that lots B and C were open for other development with the condition that the city replace the lost parking.

My thought about MECA's decision is that it sounds pretty reasonable given the conditions of the lease and the purpose of lot D.
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Bigredmed
Senior Mav

1574 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  10:57:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by admin


Hopefully all of the recent public disgruntlement will cause the NCAA to "shut up" and be thankful that a city -- that doesn't even support its minor league baseball team -- is willing to spend $120 million on a ballpark for a 10-day event.

No other city in North America would do that.

Maybe they'll stop pushing their luck.



Dude?

Really?

You are referring to the NCAA!

The organization that blackmails cities for a living.

No, they are not going to stop.

Once we build the thing, they will comeback with demands for more and more of the revenue and calmly refuse to consider the sacrifices we have already made for this event. Just as they have calmly ignored all of the work and sacrifice that we have put in place over the decades to build it from a back water tourney that no one wanted to host to what it is today.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  11:04:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can equate our making this expenditure to a city building a stadium for the NFL. You get about 10 dates a year (plus the odd concert or college game) and those stadiums are running $500 million now.

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  11:25:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bigredmed


Once we build the thing, they will comeback with demands for more and more of the revenue and calmly refuse to consider the sacrifices we have already made for this event. Just as they have calmly ignored all of the work and sacrifice that we have put in place over the decades to build it from a back water tourney that no one wanted to host to what it is today.


20 year contract will keep that in check. That doesn't mean that we won't be up a crick in 2031, though.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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dartben
Sophomore Mav

404 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  11:45:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hackermav

dartben,

Last I heard we were still suibsidizing them $1.5 million a year on top of having to pay for the damn thing.



We are, but I think that subsidy ends in a year or two. It's to build up MECA's "rainy day" fund. And MECA would still be in the black without the subsidy.

Operational wise, the Qwest Center has far exceeded expectations. The only year they've been in the red was their first year.
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CaseyMav
#10

Botswana
2337 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  11:51:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike


20 year contract will keep that in check. That doesn't mean that we won't be up a crick in 2031, though.



I'll be 66, and too busy telling kids to get the hell off my lawn, to care...

---
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hackermav
Minister of Antagonism

1039 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  12:26:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
We are, but I think that subsidy ends in a year or two. It's to build up MECA's "rainy day" fund. And MECA would still be in the black without the subsidy.

Operational wise, the Qwest Center has far exceeded expectations. The only year they've been in the red was their first year.
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Agree and Disagree. I agree that the QCO has made the black sooner than expected. I disagree that they have lived up to the expectations overall of how the thing was going to be paid for. I remember being given the line that the QCO would help pay for itself by now. That has not happened, in fact they are still way behind in projections in the convention business. That under performance is what is going to raise property taxes in 2 years. That wasn't supposed to happen.

I sure this rainy day fund doesn't include funding lawsuits against the city.
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  12:35:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CaseyMav

quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike


20 year contract will keep that in check. That doesn't mean that we won't be up a crick in 2031, though.



I'll be 66, and too busy telling kids to get the hell off my lawn, to care...



I'll be 55...wondering why I am still posting on this same message board...
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UNOMav
Aiming for #1

British Indian Ocean Territories
964 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  1:03:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rebuilding Rosenblatt in the same place would be the dumbest thing to do. It isn't a great location for a baseball stadium. Maybe it was good 60 years ago...but parks today are built in a location that allows the surrounding property to feed off the ballpark. That really can't happen where it is now. Rebuilding the park somewhere in the downtown area can continue to spur redevelopment in that area. Much of what has spurred growth downtown has been residential. That market is getting saturated. The ball park would be a significant economic benefit to current and future businesses, especially in the downtown NoDo area.

If Rosenblatt wasn't there and someone proposed to build a stadium there...most people would think they are nuts. I suspect that many of the people on the Save Rosenblatt campaign aren't looking out for the good of the city and the CWS long term...they are more worried about losing their ability to make money off the CWS where it currently operates.

Still aiming for #1.
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twiztid1
Sophomore Mav

288 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  2:50:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If Save Rosenblatt people truly cared about Rosenblatt, they would be going to baseball games all summer. But they only go during the CWS.
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  3:03:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by UNOMav

Rebuilding Rosenblatt in the same place would be the dumbest thing to do.



I'm leaving this board forever.

I agree with Mike.

Nice knowing ya'all

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.huskerh8er.com (and don't forget to visit www.zebrahead.com/news)
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Hal Dawg
Movie Star...

1210 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  8:05:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I told Joe Jordan tonight (after his live shot for the 5 p.m. newscast) that I'm going to open a little shop with sandwiches, coffee and sweets in the parking lot at Rosenblatt to cater to all the media doing live shots there. For nothing going on at the stadium, it sure has been busy.

(And no, I didn't just drive over there to see Joe. I was out riding my bike and timed my ride to see who was doing a live shot there at 5.)
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who dey
Sophomore Mav

USA
456 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2007 :  11:15:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe we should build it at Chili Greens for use by UNO, Royals, and the CWS. UNO will need it anyway when they go D1 in a few years.
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2007 :  12:38:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Research on economic impact of stadiums:

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10158365
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dartben
Sophomore Mav

404 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2007 :  12:53:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As the article notes, the difference is that the CWS attracts numerous out of towners. With a few rare exceptions, pro sports stadiums aren't built to attract out of towners.
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Bigredmed
Senior Mav

1574 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2007 :  2:35:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dartben

As the article notes, the difference is that the CWS attracts numerous out of towners. With a few rare exceptions, pro sports stadiums aren't built to attract out of towners.



But the article also mentioned that even Dr. Goss was not all that in favor of the stadium.

Also, we are talking about taxing a city that is already heavily taxed to build a baseball field for a two week long event, that we can't be sure will be here, still be a draw, and actually bring in that many dollars over the next 10-20 years. AND, we have a long track record of the NCAA blackmailing us every couple of years.

I remain skeptical.

Think about it this way, we have Warren Buffett in town. He is part owner of the O Royals, and wants to make money on the team. He has enough money in his change tray to build this stadium. Yet, neither he, or his fellow local billionaires seem all that interested in doing so. Why? Because they are poor businesses that over time lose money more often than they makeit. Why should we take this on if these financially savy people won't?
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PirateMav
Monongahela Monster

New Zealand
506 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2007 :  7:06:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think folks need to get over this notion of "two weeks of use."

What matters is not the number of days of use, but rather the amount of money that those days of use bring into the area.

I don't give a rat's hindquarters if the stadium is used for a single ******* day! If it's profitable (and obviously not a detriment to the city) then do it. The numbers speak if we will listen.



Never drive faster than you can see.
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BIGHUSKERMAV
Senior Mav

1631 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2007 :  8:05:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What are the chances that the state baseball tourney could be lured back to the new park? I realize that Lincoln/Haymarket getting that was a "tradeoff" for the Qwest getting the wrestling tourney, but I'm wondering about the details. Is there a contract in place or is it some kind of indefinite arrangement?
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Hal Dawg
Movie Star...

1210 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2007 :  8:25:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If this stadium plays host to the College World Series, it will be just like it was at Rosenblatt Stadium: Very little use of the field to "preserve" its condition for the CWS.
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UNOMav
Aiming for #1

British Indian Ocean Territories
964 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2007 :  8:26:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
At the end of the day, Goss said, if it's a question of building a new stadium in Omaha or letting the College World Series move to another city, "You certainly could make a strong case for building a new stadium."


Taken from the article, it appears that Goss wouldn't bet his house against "making a case" for a new stadium. This situation is somewhat different than professional stadiums in that this event can leave at the end of a contract, while it is much more difficult for pro teams to move. That can be looked at as a pro and as a con for a new stadium.

The other difference is that the stadium will be next door to the Qwest. So theoretically a business owner wouldn't have the problem of opening a business next to a stadium that is dark half of the year because visitors to the Qwest can pick up some of that slack. I think the stadium would spur more economic development than the stadium or the Q would do so alone.

Obviously no way of paying for this thing is going to make people excited. But this kind of tax would be better than trying to raise property taxes and would be spread out over a long period of time. I seriously doubt that many people will stopping eating out because of an additional 2% tax. And I suspect that IF they do it won't because they can't afford it, but rather they want to make a statement.

Still aiming for #1.
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