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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  10:19:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well, I'm sure the number will go up past 800 at the new stadium. I can guarantee that.

Unless the economy prevents companies from buying them, companies account for a good amount of season ticket purchases for most professional teams. With more suites and a better overall facility, there will be more reason for companies, espcially those that are based out of west o or sarpy to buy those tickets for employee giveaways or entertaining clients.

Also, 800 season ticket holders could be misleading depending on how you define it. They may only have about 1000 full 72 game season ticket holders. I'd buy that. However, how many half season ticket holders do they have? How many 20 game mini plan holders do they have? How many 12 game plan holders do they have? Those all have to be factored in as well. I have the 12 game plan myself and will do so at the new ballpark (unless they pick omahogs, windwalkers, or sodbusters as the team name. in that event, I have a decision to make)
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  10:46:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
813 last year for full with another approx 500 for mini-season tickets. They averaged 5888 with those numbers. The new park will seat 6500 with max capacity around 9000.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  11:03:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
a total of 1400 combined with full and partial season plans is still smaller than I would have expected. Would have guessed that with the mini plans it would have been well over 2k.

That is sure to go up next year. The better venue will ensure that by itself; however, you can't understate the fact that the team was a flaming pile of garbage for a decade as another factor in low ticket commitment. With the royals fielding an exciting team last year, it's sure to pay some dividends this year. If they can keep it up this year with more quality play, all the better.

Either way, you just can't discount that even with a relatively weak on-field product, you're going to see gains in the world of pro baseball with a quality facility. I don't think people realize just how much the facility and location were hurting the franchise.

They've set the bar really low. If they can't average 5k+ at the new venue, they have real problems.

In fact, I think people are going to have to adjust to a new way of viewing minor league baseball in omaha where they HAVE to commit to tickets up front. Gone will be the days where front row tickets are available for any game simply by walking up the day of the event. That, more than anything, hurt the season ticket commitment. Now, people will have to pony up or understand they are sitting on the grass.
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mrkaline
Mav Scout in Indiana

Poland
1475 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  1:39:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You'll be surprised how many young families come out to sit in the grass. Out here in Indy the parents just put out the blanket and let the kids run around. Kids love it, parents love it, and it's a cheap family outing. Does anybody know if they are going to allow you to bring out your own coolers/food/drink in the grass? Indy does it, and the only thing you can't bring in is alcohol. That is really attractive for families.
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Hal Dawg
Movie Star...

1210 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  4:33:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm sure MetroFan knows these numbers well, but it's worth sharing them with this audience.

The Lincoln Saltdogs are worth a comparison. The team hit the ground running when a new stadium (Haymarket Park) was built in 2001. The owner says he wanted the ballpark - a $30 million product of a partnership between Nebco, the city of Lincoln and the University of Nebraska - to be "a community place." That sounds a lot like this (as yet unnamed) ballpark in Sarpy County.

Here's the Saltdogs' attendance figures:

Year - Total Att. - Avg. Att.
2001 - 240,022 - 5,334
2002 - 247,471 - 4,852
2003 - 223,449 - 4,966
2004 - 204,354 - 4,348
2005 - 207,744 - 4,328
2006 - 190,873 - 4,061
2007 - 193,040 - 4,022
2008 - 182,852 - 3,975
2009 - 172,445 - 3,669
2010 - 163,676 - 3,409 (third best in the league)

You can see the steady drop as the novelty of the team has worn off. If the Omaha Royals (or whatever they are going to call themselves after next week) don't average 6,500 or better in their inaugural season at the new park, there's going to be some real trouble down the road.
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Hal Dawg
Movie Star...

1210 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  4:37:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
By the way, according to MetroFan, I was 13 people off on my season ticket holder estimate. Not bad.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  4:44:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hal Dawg

I'm sure MetroFan knows these numbers well, but it's worth sharing them with this audience.

The Lincoln Saltdogs are worth a comparison. The team hit the ground running when a new stadium (Haymarket Park) was built in 2001. The owner says he wanted the ballpark - a $30 million product of a partnership between Nebco, the city of Lincoln and the University of Nebraska - to be "a community place." That sounds a lot like this (as yet unnamed) ballpark in Sarpy County.

Here's the Saltdogs' attendance figures:

Year - Total Att. - Avg. Att.
2001 - 240,022 - 5,334
2002 - 247,471 - 4,852
2003 - 223,449 - 4,966
2004 - 204,354 - 4,348
2005 - 207,744 - 4,328
2006 - 190,873 - 4,061
2007 - 193,040 - 4,022
2008 - 182,852 - 3,975
2009 - 172,445 - 3,669
2010 - 163,676 - 3,409 (third best in the league)

You can see the steady drop as the novelty of the team has worn off. If the Omaha Royals (or whatever they are going to call themselves after next week) don't average 6,500 or better in their inaugural season at the new park, there's going to be some real trouble down the road.



good information. I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. The city of Lincoln was just entering the game of pro baseball in 2001 with this team. They got off to a good start and then the attendance fell off a cliff. Maybe it was because the novelty of the stadium wore off? maybe it was because people realized that beer league baseball is a bad product? Maybe it was because of the league changes by the Saltdogs? maybe it was because the Salt Dogs didn't win as much as they originally did? Maybe Lincoln isn't a baseball town?

In a way it's apples to oranges. This is AAA baseball, not indy league. This is in a market, with different demographics than lincoln, that has had a team for 40+ years, not a startup.

The only way this works as a comparison is if you also view this as a new franchise and discount 40+ years of tradition with the Omaha Royals. I don't think that quite works here. Yes, as the OWH pointed out, the franchise will have some influx and loss of fans, but it looks like it could be marginal in both directions. Omaha has proven, consistently, that they can manage at minimum around 4k fans per game. I just don't see that signifigantly changing just because the team is 10 miles in a different direction.

It can't be proven either way until we are several years in, but my point here is that, while your info is interesting, it really is apples to oranges in a way.
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  8:43:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
good discussion...interesting thing about OWH article is that is didn't represent the entire Omaha metro...parts of Papillion and a lot of Millard weren't included in the polling. Based on the stance OWH has taken in the Sarpy stadium process, the numbers would have been too good for the OWH to run if they had included those areas.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  9:06:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Or the World-Herald used this as an additional question on their pre-election surveys, which focused on Omaha and the 2nd congressional district race. Pulling in the 1st district areas of Sarpy County didn't make a lot of sense financially.

As for the experiences of the Saltdogs, look at the history of every new stadium. Attendance is always highest that first year; everybody wants to experience that "new ballpark smell" when it's all shiny and new. Doesn't matter the level of baseball; it even happens in the majors. The trick is to try and attach yourself to new fans who sample the new product and raise the bar above where it was previously.

Of course, since they've only built a 6500 seat ballpark, it's going to be tough to raise attendance. The Royals won't have any of those 23,000 crowds this season, or even 10,000 crowds. But they will still have those 42 degree nights in April when nobody wants to sit outside and watch baseball.


Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  9:24:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
except you Mike! you will be there in April!
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krutov 9
All-Star Mav

Russia
2987 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2010 :  10:23:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Saltdogs draw less than 400 actual. Place is a mortuary. Don't know how they make it.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2010 :  08:39:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But they will have 9k nights so that is good. Remember there's 6500 seats but capacity for the stadium with the berm seating (looks very cool on the latest pics from the park) and picnic areas and such.

The OWH admitted their study was misleading with leaving out people that were so close to the park. Obviously with that factored in this is a good sign for the Royals.

Greg
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Hal Dawg
Movie Star...

1210 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2010 :  12:54:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How far has the Omaha World-Herald fallen? It no longer uses Gallup to do its polling.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2010 :  10:12:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OWH is a pitiful joke. Their agenda is eveident in the stories they run. They are quickly becoming Omaha's equivelant of fox news. They are trying to create news rather than report it. sad.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2010 :  12:52:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

But they will have 9k nights so that is good. Remember there's 6500 seats but capacity for the stadium with the berm seating (looks very cool on the latest pics from the park) and picnic areas and such.

The OWH admitted their study was misleading with leaving out people that were so close to the park. Obviously with that factored in this is a good sign for the Royals.

Greg


I don't know about that. The 23% of Omahans who said they'll attend less is NOT a good sign for the Royals. The fact that they left out a few people in Gretna isn't terribly meaningful in the terms of the entire metro area. I checked last week, and I think 80% of Sarpy County residents are in district 2, so the survey is relevant, as long as you understand that it doesn't include a key piece of the market.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2010 :  2:21:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The poll is not accurate , so I would call it somewhat relevant. 700 people is a decent sample, but not huge and you have to take into account a team's market. In minor league baseball an hour from the stadium to any one point is the market area in minor league baseball. Would have been wise to at least include all of Millard. What about Lincoln, Fremont, Ashland, Valley, etc.
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MavBridget
The Girl Wonder

France
6424 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2010 :  8:39:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Progress Report #13 (as of 10/14/10) for TD Ameritrade Park:
http://www.tdameritradeparkomaha.com/reports/ProgressReportNumber13_20101014.pdf


===========================================================================
quote:
"People like Jon and Bridget epitomize what it means to be a fan. Come hell or high water, they're going to be there, and they've really invested a lot of themselves into this program." -- Mike Kemp, Omaha World-Herald, March 16, 2009
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2010 :  10:02:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

The poll is not accurate , so I would call it somewhat relevant. 700 people is a decent sample, but not huge and you have to take into account a team's market. In minor league baseball an hour from the stadium to any one point is the market area in minor league baseball. Would have been wise to at least include all of Millard. What about Lincoln, Fremont, Ashland, Valley, etc.


Dude, they surveyed the second congressional district. So that included all of Millard and Valley. The only areas that they missed in Sarpy County was Gretna and a handful of subdivisions west of 168th street.

And considering the results from Omaha, the results would be likely even worse if they had included Council Bluffs.

Lincoln? Well, that would have likely increased the percentage of fans who would answered "about the same", but it also would have increased the percentage of fans who haven't attended a Royals game at Rosenblatt from 46% to probably 70%.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2010 :  10:24:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Speaking of surveys, I heard on KFAB a couple weeks ago that they are just now doing studies on parking downtown for the new stadium. It was on the Tom Becka show, found that kind of interesting.

Obviously the new park will draw more from Lincoln, you talk about a group who's travel time will be greatly impacted in a positive way.

The Salt Dawg attendance figures are interesting. 3rd in the league in attendance. Imagine that crowd in TD Ameritrade. Talk about a ghost town....They started too high for their league and now are falling back to where an indy league should be. I imagine the O Royals will be at least in the middle in the PCL in attendance.

Greg
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  11:09:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

The poll is not accurate , so I would call it somewhat relevant. 700 people is a decent sample, but not huge and you have to take into account a team's market. In minor league baseball an hour from the stadium to any one point is the market area in minor league baseball. Would have been wise to at least include all of Millard. What about Lincoln, Fremont, Ashland, Valley, etc.


Dude, they surveyed the second congressional district. So that included all of Millard and Valley. The only areas that they missed in Sarpy County was Gretna and a handful of subdivisions west of 168th street.

And considering the results from Omaha, the results would be likely even worse if they had included Council Bluffs.

Lincoln? Well, that would have likely increased the percentage of fans who would answered "about the same", but it also would have increased the percentage of fans who haven't attended a Royals game at Rosenblatt from 46% to probably 70%.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com



No Mike, you are wrong. I talked to the people who set up the poll and most of Millard was not in the poll. It doesn't matter where the 2nd is as they had certain areas of it where they pulled the call list from. I don't post anything but fact here, Dude.
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  11:13:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

Also, an update from TD Ameritrade Park. The infield is now green with fresh sod.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com



BTW, they have holes in the field getting the subgrade ready as they laid sod just to get it in. There will be issues with the settling of the playing field. The designer told them they needed to wait until 2011 to put it in, but the refused and said do it anyway. So since a normal sod would not have rooted for 2011 play, the way around it was to use a sod that has a 1.5" dirt base instead of a .5" dirt base. It cost $60,000 more to do this.

Creighton has also been told to look for potential alternative sites for April games.

Just an FYI for those interested.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  12:02:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

No Mike, you are wrong. I talked to the people who set up the poll and most of Millard was not in the poll. It doesn't matter where the 2nd is as they had certain areas of it where they pulled the call list from. I don't post anything but fact here, Dude.


My source is the World-Herald.


Your source is . . . ? ? ?


Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  12:32:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Survey results that the OWH publishes can really be biased. The one this Summer on recalling Suttle was brutal. One of the ways asked was something like, Mayor Suttle is proposing to raises taxes with a restaraunt tax a wheel tax and possibly a property tax without proposing major spending cuts, do you think he should be recalled? A little slanted if you ask me so take the OWH survey with a grain of salt....

Greg
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  12:49:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

No Mike, you are wrong. I talked to the people who set up the poll and most of Millard was not in the poll. It doesn't matter where the 2nd is as they had certain areas of it where they pulled the call list from. I don't post anything but fact here, Dude.


My source is the World-Herald.


Your source is . . . ? ? ?


Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com



The OWH as well
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  10:59:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

Survey results that the OWH publishes can really be biased. The one this Summer on recalling Suttle was brutal. One of the ways asked was something like, Mayor Suttle is proposing to raises taxes with a restaraunt tax a wheel tax and possibly a property tax without proposing major spending cuts, do you think he should be recalled? A little slanted if you ask me so take the OWH survey with a grain of salt....

Greg


I don't see anything of that sort in the W-H story on the Suttle poll, much like I don't see anything about Millard being excluded from the BFE Ballpark poll...

Suttle Poll: http://www.omaha.com/article/20101024/NEWS01/710249902

Maybe I'm not reading these stories right.

But tonight's election sure raises questions about the validity of the W-H poll. The Lee Terry/Tom White race went from a race within the margin of error to a 25% margin of victory. Did Bullwinkle convert every undecided in the closing days? I doubt that.

So yeah, I'm now extremely skeptical of the W-H poll on the ballpark.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2010 :  08:50:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah based on what we were told going in, I thought the election was going to be closer.

Greg
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2010 :  07:48:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.action3news.com/Global/story.asp?S=13449160

ORoyals start to announce major partners and amenities. Pretty good list...wonder who the Naming Rights partner is. I would think PayPal or someone close.
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2010 :  07:53:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.omaha.com/article/20101104/SPORTS/101109852/-1#omaha-team-announces-corporate-sponsors

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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2010 :  08:09:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My money is on PayPal as well. Still think Werner stays involved too. Pretty impressive list.

Greg
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2010 :  2:51:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I should have gone with mine original instinct on Werner. They've been such a big sponsor the last few years. Might have had my judgement clouded when Mike disregarded Werner due to Gail Werner and her now former ties to MECA.

Very cool that they are all set on naming rights.

Greg
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