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brad
Senior Mav

USA
1141 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  2:48:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have heard from a good source that the sod might not get laid until spring and Creighton my have to play all of their 2011 games at Rosenblatt. I have not hear about that water table, and that would kind of suprise me since the stadium is being built up and the field will not be much lower than the parking lot that was there. However if there is water table issues, this would be the year to figure that our since the Missouri has gone over the sidewalk at the Union Labor Statue by ricks several times this summer. I would not be supried if its not near that level now.

Omaha Photos and more @ www.bradwilliamsphotography.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  3:04:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
surprising that the city would delay the razing of rosenblatt until next summer because of creighton. Why can't CU play all of their games, minus the 2nd NU game at their own field on campus?

I would think you could start off the new ballpark downtown with the 2nd NU game because you know they'll want a test event at TD Ameritrade before going live with the CWS in June. That CU/NU game in late may would be the right event to start out with.

The whole season combined of CU baseball doesn't draw enough, in my opinion, to justify keeping rosenblatt around for another 6 months.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  3:05:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bigredmed

quote:
Originally posted by nousefouraname

don't forget talking about taxing non-residents to help make up for some of their shortfall.

Won't all of the omaha residents out there soon be getting their CWS checks though? Oh, you don't?

I'm sure the residents will get to pay for it though.

AJ: you forget there probably will be a few concerts there too. That will add a few dates, but for the most part you're correct, it'll be empty far more than it's being used. Still might might make more money than the one in Sarpy though, so i guess it's alright. we'll see though.

I'll reiterate, I'm not against the Omaha ballpark, but the taxpayer will likely be footing more of the bill for it than the last 2 mayors would like you to think.



I want to see a law passed in Omaha that stipulates that for all public works projects that are not safety related (roads, water, sewer, etc) the only way the thing gets built is if the Mayor and the city council members voting for it put up their own assets to help build it (I mean every cent they own). If it is a good idea and will be a money maker, then they will get a cut of the profits. If it is going to be a huge white elephant that costs us zillions of dollars a year, then they lose everything BEFORE the rest of us do.



You're a thinker. I like that idea.

Can we get your law passed before Suttle gets his white elephant trolley car passed? You know that thing is going to be a loss leader that's going to cost tax payers a ton of money.
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brad
Senior Mav

USA
1141 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  3:45:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I support the idea of a better mass transit system for omaha and think a street car could be part of that system. However its not going to happen while Suttle is here.

Omaha Photos and more @ www.bradwilliamsphotography.com
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brad
Senior Mav

USA
1141 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  3:48:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nousefouraname

surprising that the city would delay the razing of rosenblatt until next summer because of creighton.


I would guess the city will keep Rosenblatt around until the new stadium is 100% done just incase. In fact, I bet they keep it around until after the first CWS is over.

Omaha Photos and more @ www.bradwilliamsphotography.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  3:53:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by brad

I support the idea of a better mass transit system for omaha and think a street car could be part of that system. However its not going to happen while Suttle is here.

Omaha Photos and more @ www.bradwilliamsphotography.com
GO MAVS!!!



don't want to get too off topic, but I also support a better mass transit system; however, the plan as its been laid out isn't a better system. it would support a fraction of the city as a massive cost. white elephant.
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buetane
All-Star Mav

Iceland
2568 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  4:02:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I heard from the very beginning they were keeping Rosenblatt until next year's CWS as a just in case.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  4:17:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
gotcha. i'd never really paid attention to whether or not they were going to keep it longer. figured it was destined for the wrecking ball right away.
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CaseyMav
#10

Botswana
2337 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  6:57:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by buetane

I heard from the very beginning they were keeping Rosenblatt until next year's CWS as a just in case.



That would be a nightmare of biblical proportions.

---
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buetane
All-Star Mav

Iceland
2568 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  8:40:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why, then we'd get another last series at the Blatt. I see what you're saying though. Everything's been geared towards this new stadium opening.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  9:25:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by brad

I have heard from a good source that the sod might not get laid until spring and Creighton my have to play all of their 2011 games at Rosenblatt. I have not hear about that water table, and that would kind of suprise me since the stadium is being built up and the field will not be much lower than the parking lot that was there. However if there is water table issues, this would be the year to figure that our since the Missouri has gone over the sidewalk at the Union Labor Statue by ricks several times this summer. I would not be supried if its not near that level now.

Omaha Photos and more @ www.bradwilliamsphotography.com
GO MAVS!!!



The playing surface at TD Ameritrade Park is several feet below street level. It's hard to estimate from outside, but I'd put it at least at 8 feet down.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  10:00:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

Who says it's going to be empty? Between the 300k-350k of the CWS, perhaps as many as 100k for the Nighthawks, and maybe 50k for Creighton baseball, the attendance at TD Ameritrade Park could possibly exceed the attendance for the Royals next season...especially if they get a concert or two downtown.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com



shouldn't it outdraw the Sarpy Ballpark when you look at the expense of each? The ration is at least 5 dollars to 1 dollar PLUS the $125MM paid to the NCAA over 25 years. It should outdraw and if it doesn't that would be embarassing.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  12:18:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
+1 metrofan
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  06:59:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

Who says it's going to be empty? Between the 300k-350k of the CWS, perhaps as many as 100k for the Nighthawks, and maybe 50k for Creighton baseball, the attendance at TD Ameritrade Park could possibly exceed the attendance for the Royals next season...especially if they get a concert or two downtown.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com



shouldn't it outdraw the Sarpy Ballpark when you look at the expense of each? The ration is at least 5 dollars to 1 dollar PLUS the $125MM paid to the NCAA over 25 years. It should outdraw and if it doesn't that would be embarassing.


In terms of out-of-the-Metro-area visitors, one day at the CWS will top the Royals season numbers. That's the reason Omaha is spending all of this money on TD Ameritrade Park. Those visitors come to town, stay at hotels and eat at restaurants and shop, infusing out-of-town money into our local economy.

If it were simply a matter of entertainment value, yes, the Royals stadium is a better deal. But in terms of economic impact, TD Ameritrade Park is the slam dunk winner, even though it costs four times more than the Royals stadium.


Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  11:49:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well then mike, that might get towards the crux of your distaste for the sarpy ballpark. if the royals are basically earning only money from in town customers, then sarpy is now taking that cash right out of omaha's back pocket. It's a whole new revenue source that Sarpy never had before and no matter how much people like to diminish the importance of the royals to the local community, it's less money that people will now be spending in omaha, but will now be bringing south to sarpy.
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dartben
Sophomore Mav

404 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  11:53:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bigredmed

I want to see a law passed in Omaha that stipulates that for all public works projects that are not safety related (roads, water, sewer, etc) the only way the thing gets built is if the Mayor and the city council members voting for it put up their own assets to help build it (I mean every cent they own). If it is a good idea and will be a money maker, then they will get a cut of the profits. If it is going to be a huge white elephant that costs us zillions of dollars a year, then they lose everything BEFORE the rest of us do.



So, you want to live in a city where we're stuck with the Civic Auditorium for the next 100 years, a library system that is straight out of the 1880's, and where we'll never see another city park built or maintained in our lifetime?

Good call. Let me guess, you're the joker who thought taxing the wealth of all billionaires in the state was a legit idea, too.
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adammd
Sophomore Mav

463 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  12:52:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nousefouraname

well then mike, that might get towards the crux of your distaste for the sarpy ballpark. if the royals are basically earning only money from in town customers, then sarpy is now taking that cash right out of omaha's back pocket.


If your saying (and I agree) that most of this is in town money, then the money in play would be ticket sales, concessions, lease revenue, etc. Omaha never had any of this to be taken away, and Sarpy will not be getting it either, it will stay with the Royals.

I just don't see this being a big gain/loss for the cities or counties. Sure, Sarpy gets hopes/possible development, name recognition, some taxes, jobs, etc that all have some actual value, but will that value outweigh the costs to the county??? Probably not enough one way or another to classify this as a big monetery loss/gain for either city/county.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  1:03:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nousefouraname

well then mike, that might get towards the crux of your distaste for the sarpy ballpark. if the royals are basically earning only money from in town customers, then sarpy is now taking that cash right out of omaha's back pocket. It's a whole new revenue source that Sarpy never had before and no matter how much people like to diminish the importance of the royals to the local community, it's less money that people will now be spending in omaha, but will now be bringing south to sarpy.


Nope. I was against the city of Omaha building a stadium for the Royals in Omaha, downtown or elsewhere... I do not believe the economic benefits of the Royals justify an investment of $10 million of public funds, let alone the $25 million or more that will be required in Sarpy.

I believe that the Royals will be a net loss for Sarpy County. Revenues to the county will increase, to be sure. But the corresponding increase in costs to the county will be far greater than that.

Conversely, I think that losing the CWS would have been a net loss to Omaha, as I believe the revenues that the CWS brings in terms of tourism traffic outweights the expense of the new stadium, especially since much of the new stadium is being paid from those revenues.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Bigredmed
Senior Mav

1574 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  1:23:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dartben

quote:
Originally posted by Bigredmed

I want to see a law passed in Omaha that stipulates that for all public works projects that are not safety related (roads, water, sewer, etc) the only way the thing gets built is if the Mayor and the city council members voting for it put up their own assets to help build it (I mean every cent they own). If it is a good idea and will be a money maker, then they will get a cut of the profits. If it is going to be a huge white elephant that costs us zillions of dollars a year, then they lose everything BEFORE the rest of us do.



So, you want to live in a city where we're stuck with the Civic Auditorium for the next 100 years, a library system that is straight out of the 1880's, and where we'll never see another city park built or maintained in our lifetime?

Good call. Let me guess, you're the joker who thought taxing the wealth of all billionaires in the state was a legit idea, too.



I realize that this would sting public works, but lets break it down. Public library resources are going to be adequate for the next 40-60 years at the rate the printed word is being replaced by Ebooks. Even if we needed to build another, I am confident that the old school approach of paying for these things would be effective.

In the not too distant past, we looked to the people living in the area the service would be used by and expected them to pay for it. A park or pool was paid for by the home owners in the area around the facility and it was then seen as their neighborhood pool. "Ownership" brought pride and concern for its ongoing maintenance. People did things for themselves and their facilities stayed nice.

The problem with the current approach is that it is really easy to see how every project that comes along would be "JUST THE THING WE NEED TO GET OMAHA ON THE MAP"(tm) when you don't have any dogs in the fight.

The city fathers don't have to put up any cash, what is their risk? In the old way of paying for things the people had dogs in the fight, you had an extra incentive to build just what you need and to only build when you could really make it pay all the way down the ledger. You also had extra incentive to make profitable use of the place and to keep it nice and orderly.

With the current system, these things just appear as if by magic, and no one really feels any ownership of them or responsibility for them. As a resident of the part of Omaha that is firmly within the boundaries of Omaha's tax factory, I am tired of paying for things that benefit only a handful of people and commit us to decades of revenue shortfalls and cost over runs that have to be paid by all of us (including the vast majority of people who never see a benefit from the projects).

The suggestion I made was, by intent, hyperbole. The reason for this is that if the Big Giant Heads had to put some of their personal cash at risk, they would be more inclined to be cautious with their money (and with ours.) Greater caution in City Hall would be a good thing for all of us.


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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  1:47:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the Sarpy Stadium was a good investment for those of us that live in the Metro. The Royals are one of the more affordable options. I've been to a lot more O Royals games over the years than the CWS.

I also support the DT stadium but it could have been so much more. The problem I've always had with it was that other than the CWS there really wasn't much put into it to make it more attractive for the Royals or anyone else. I don't think Creighton will be able to make a go of it for too long, and even if they do get an Indy league team in there they certainly won't last.

Greg
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MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  2:19:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Indy ball is not coming as of the most recent indy ball league meetings. The indy leagues are all talking about merging to decrease travel expenses because 80+% of their teams are losing money. The are simply trying to stay alive and really not looking at expansion. This speaks highly about the difference between Minor League Baseball and indy ball.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  4:29:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

I think the Sarpy Stadium was a good investment for those of us that live in the Metro. The Royals are one of the more affordable options. I've been to a lot more O Royals games over the years than the CWS.

I also support the DT stadium but it could have been so much more. The problem I've always had with it was that other than the CWS there really wasn't much put into it to make it more attractive for the Royals or anyone else. I don't think Creighton will be able to make a go of it for too long, and even if they do get an Indy league team in there they certainly won't last.

Greg



agreed. The CWS just isn't for the average fan anymore. It just costs too much these days. I probably attend 10-12 Royals games a year. I attend 1-2 CWS games a year. In terms of my needs and entertainment value, I'm happy that the Royals stayed. They couldn't be replaced by beer league baseball no matter how much Roger Dixon would like you to think otherwise.

Also, I believe there's a certain negative connotation to cities that consistently lose professional sports teams. Losing the Royals, IMO, would have been a black eye. It would have eventually been forgotten, but it's not something you want to see happen.

I also agree about creighton. That has to be a sweetheart of a sweetheart deal. No way they can pay too high of rent and make it work there, not with the 500 people a game they draw.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2010 :  09:51:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Creighton did not get a good deal though. Their rent is high. I think 5 to 10 years out once the economy turns Creighton will look to build on campus. Their crowds at TD will look tiny in that stadium.

Greg

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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2010 :  10:20:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i guess they are making a gamble then hoping that TD Ameritrade does for their baseball program what Qwest did for basketball even if it's on a smaller scale. If it doesn't work and they are still averaging 500 fans a game, they may regret moving there or be begging meca to renegotiate halfway through.

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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2010 :  12:41:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Over 2 days, I went back and read every post in this thread.

Somebody should print this up and stick it in a time capsule or something.

WEll done everybody.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2010 :  07:07:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just found out my cost for next year at the sarpy ballpark. Right now, I pay $70 a seat on an eleven game mini plan. that works out $6.36 per seat, per game. They will be offering a comparable 12 game mini plan next year for $102 a seat or $8.50 per seat, per game. With $2 parking, that will end up being a per game cost of $19 for my 2 seats.

Let's say the cost of tickets didn't go up one penny from the $6.36 I'm paying this year but we factored in $8 parking downtown. That would equate to a cost of $20.72 per game at TD Ameritrade right off the top.

If you factor that out over a 12 game season (and keep in mind others commit to much more than 12 games) the total cost in Sarpy is $220 as opposed to $248.64 downton for a pair of tickets.

And remember, that's assuming the cost of tickets wasn't going to go up a dime downtown. We'll never know how much tickets for Royals games would have cost downtown, but it would have been likely that they would have gone up at least to as much as they are going to be in Sarpy. If that were the case, the per game cost at TD Ameritrade would have been $25 per game or $300 for the season.

Any way you slice it, the Sarpy ballpark is a better value for the fans even with $2 parking.
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2010 :  08:28:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, but according to Mike, you have to pay $350 in gas, plus pack mule rental just to get there.

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buetane
All-Star Mav

Iceland
2568 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2010 :  08:54:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did we also already know that parking is going to be $8 downtown?
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2010 :  09:01:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One other piece that plays a small factor...if the Royals were playing at the new ballpark, they would not have any say in the concessions provider and vendors that set up shop there. At their own place, they have total control. Doesn't sound like much, but that's a huge chunk of revenue over the long haul.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2010 :  10:40:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
buetane: according to this article on Omaha.com, the parking at Qwest Center has already gone up to $8. That was effective July 1.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100610/NEWS01/706109804

MECA pretty much made it clear that there was no room for negotiation for the Omaha Royals to have gotten discounted parking from that $8 amount. So, we can only take that at face value and that parking for those games would have been $8.

I'm pleased with my $8.50 per game cost on tickets. I'm positive that the cost at TD would have been at least that much and probably more.
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