MP Message Board
MP Message Board
Home | Profile | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
 All Forums
 Message Board
 MavPuck.com Other Sports Forum
 Dear "Save Rosenblatt" People
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 107

nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2010 :  10:10:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

It just got more expensive to go to Qwest and the new ballpark:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100610/NEWS01/100619993#qwest-hikes-its-parking-rates



more and more confident that sarpy is the right place for the o-royals because of this. Good luck to Roger & company if he thinks that he can get people to come down and watch beer league indy baseball with $8 parking. I know for a fact Omaha Royals fans who have never paid to park would not be willing to pay $8 a car to park down there.

I'd pay $1 or $2 in Sarpy, but no way I'd pay $8 downtown. This is another win for baseball fans.
Go to Top of Page

Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2010 :  10:51:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
$8 is a little steep. I'm not sure they're going to get their indy league.

Greg
Go to Top of Page

Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2010 :  11:03:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I actually think the Nighthawks will do well (though the league long term will not). I bet though that if we had an AHL team, and chose that name, a lot of people would be claiming that we were named for a plane with no real connection to the area. Because they are not competition for UNO hockey though, they get a free pass.

Greg
Go to Top of Page

West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2010 :  12:31:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm skeptical that the Independent League is still coming to town anymore.

But the surrounding area lots raised their rates to $8 an event last winter, so MECA is just matching the going rate.

Greg: Shouldn't the repeated failures of the AHL (Quad Cities, Des Moines twice) have convinced you now that they dug their own grave? Time to let it go...

Truth be told, the Nighthawks ARE competition for UNO hockey. Two of their four dates are in conflict with UNO hockey (Oct. 2 exhibition against BC and Nov. 19th against North Dakota)

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
Go to Top of Page

Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2010 :  2:25:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think the Nighthawks pose and threat or competition to UNO. One of those dates is an exhibition that with the Nighthawks or not, will not draw much.

With the surrounds lots at $8 MECA could have secured more traffic for theirs if they were less. Hopefully the money is going to pay down the big amount of debt that starts coming do next year.

Greg
Go to Top of Page

West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2010 :  08:27:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Darth must be reading...
quote:
Two independent baseball leagues are now interested in bringing a team to the new downtown baseball stadium.

Clark Griffith, commissioner of the Northern League, said Thursday that he hopes to meet with the Metropolitan Entertainment and Convention Authority to discuss a deal.

After a visit to Omaha this week, Griffith, of Minneapolis, said he's so convinced that Omaha is the right place to add a ninth team to his league that he has a check in my briefcase.

MECA is already in talks with the American Association about bringing a team to Omaha's new TD Ameritrade Park, which is being built to host the College World Series and is scheduled to open next year.

Since the Omaha Royals decided to move from Rosenblatt Stadium to a new, smaller stadium in Sarpy County, MECA has been looking for a new baseball team to entertain downtown fans.

Roger Dixon, MECA's president and CEO, said Thursday that he doesn't want to hurt his relationship with the American Association by moving ahead with the Northern League.

He said he has asked the American Association to let him know if an Omaha team is a go by the first part of July. If the league misses the deadline or turns him down, he'd be open to discussing a deal with Griffith.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100611/NEWS01/706119879/0#stadium-s-ball-prospects-improve

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
Go to Top of Page

Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2010 :  09:41:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If Roger can pull off getting an indy league team into that stadium for a couple years that would be pretty impressive.

Greg
Go to Top of Page

MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2010 :  10:22:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gonna be tough if this does happen...$8 parking, inferior talent, no share in naming rights/concessions/parking/suite revenue, pay your players/workers comp/travel/scouting/coaching/athletic training, sell advertising against meca, no control over games opps (ushers, sellers, cleaning), no control over practice time, out most of June.

oh, and the ORoyals are staying.
Go to Top of Page

Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2010 :  10:36:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My thoughts exactly. Just seems like a big time money loser to me.

Greg
Go to Top of Page

West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2010 :  12:49:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

Gonna be tough if this does happen...$8 parking, inferior talent, no share in naming rights/concessions/parking/suite revenue, pay your players/workers comp/travel/scouting/coaching/athletic training, sell advertising against meca, no control over games opps (ushers, sellers, cleaning), no control over practice time, out most of June.

oh, and the ORoyals are staying.


Most of that is a double edged sword. Rent includes all your incremental expenses (ushers, sellers, cleaning). Concessions and suite revenue is all part of the negotiated deal, and you are piggybacking on the most popular sporting event in town.

Sell advertising against MECA? How does that work exactly. MECA can't post any permanent advertising in the stadium for the CWS, so it's all relative. You get a turnkey operation, and concentrate on the baseball.

The only negative is having to leave town for 17 days in June...but you don't want to counterprogram against the CWS anyway.

Plus, you have a central location that's easier to get to for 75% of the metro area.

And as Martie Cordaro repeatedly pointed out in the past, fans don't care about the quality of baseball. (That's a double-edged sword by itself, as the ORoyals do an excellent job of making a ballgame fun for everybody, and will do an even better job at BFE.)

I live out west, and work downtown, and frankly, I'm more interested in going to the indy league games than driving all the way south. My mind could change based on what actually emerges, but I think the Indy League could do just fine based solely on convenience.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
Go to Top of Page

MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2010 :  12:53:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Funny, Mike, funny...you don't know the negotiated deals...if they have changed then yep it could maybe work, I don't see it.

As far as selling against MECA, they have the building to sell - signage, videoboard spots, etc. The same way they sell against Creighton and UNO. Oh, yea UNO the one that is probably going to move to their own venue precisely becouse of a deal just like the one MECA is negotiating with indy ball.

And ask the ORoyals what piggybacking on the CWS does to their June and July months.
Go to Top of Page

nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2010 :  2:55:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
metrofan is right. take creighton & UNO for example. CU gets the courtside boards for their own advertising, pa reads, & they split the time on the video & matrix boards. MECA gets half of the time on the video/matrix boards, their own in arena signage, and all advertising on the ribbon panels. It's the same deal for UNO except they don't have courtside tables to fall back on.

the two entities do compete for advertising. It is important that you understand that. The advertising dollars do make a difference.

but remember metrofan, mike is ok with a new uno arena regardless of how much it might cost the city for infrastructure work, but at the same time he's vehemently opposed to a 2nd baseball stadium in a different city even though the reasons for the extra facilities are the same in both instances. kind of a double standard.
Go to Top of Page

West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  12:30:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think there's a bit of a difference between spending a million dollars on infrastructure for economic development, and spending $25 million (that's AFTER the Royals contribution) plus interest on a ball park.

When I talked about piggybacking, I was referring to people who will buy suites for the CWS who will also be buying them for Indy League games. The whole issue comes down to what kind of deal MECA is willing to cut with an Indy League team. We know that MECA wasn't able to cut a deal with the Royals. You say it's because MECA wanted too much. Maybe. I also know at that same time, Sarpy County was whispering sweet nothings into Alan Stein's ear, so I don't think the Royals were much into negotiating either at that time. MECA knew that they weren't going to sign the Royals, so they didn't even try.

UNO's new arena is being built for a number of reasons. They need a practice facility co-located with their playing arena - preferably on campus. And although I haven't heard how they plan to pay for it, I doubt they are asking the city to pay for it.

I wouldn't have an issue with the Sarpy County stadium (other than it's location) if the Royals were paying for it.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
Go to Top of Page

Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  10:15:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Either way it's millions on a city who's arena payment is going up to $11 million next year, and is already having budget issues. Plus you would be paying for infrastructure on a facility that will be pulling out an anchor tenant from your own facility.

Greg
Go to Top of Page

MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  10:39:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ORoyals will pay up to $13.5-14MM over the 25 years in lease. ORoyals will pay $2.35MM over first 2 years in capital contribution. ORoyals responsible for day-to-day maintenance and expense to maintain. ORoyals investing $4.5MM in concession and FF&E prior to April 2011. ORoyals bringing the franchise, that was recently valued at $22.5MM.

This is a true public, private partnership that the ORoyals are partnering with Sarpy County on, it just hasn't been reported.

As far as Qwest and TD the principal will come due next year on Qwest and the parking increase was the first step toward facing that debt. The operating revene that had been made at Rosenblatt (that is suppose to be put back into a city facility per city law) the past several years ($400-600k per year) had been going to Qwest debt, that is going away obviously. The pro-formas that were presented and sold to the community for TD included CWS, CU and ORoyals games - if it has ever been updated to show what the revenues will be w/o ORoyals it has never been made public. Going to be an interesting 3-5 years.
Go to Top of Page

Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  11:04:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very solid points.

I did not realize money from Rosenblatt was being put into Qwest. I am glad the parking increase is going to help pay the big increase in Qwest payments. Will be interesting to see how long it will be before parking at Qwest goes to $10. That may be sooner rather than later with the payments we will be making.

I did not realize some TD Ameritrade figures included having the O Royals there.

Greg
Go to Top of Page

West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  2:57:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

ORoyals will pay up to $13.5-14MM over the 25 years in lease. ORoyals will pay $2.35MM over first 2 years in capital contribution. ORoyals responsible for day-to-day maintenance and expense to maintain. ORoyals investing $4.5MM in concession and FF&E prior to April 2011. ORoyals bringing the franchise, that was recently valued at $22.5MM.

This is a true public, private partnership that the ORoyals are partnering with Sarpy County on, it just hasn't been reported.


Obviously, you have never had a mortgage, otherwise you wouldn't try to compare paying $450k a year on a lease (see http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/41148717.html) plus a $2.3 million payment upfront.

The $450k a year over 25 years essentially finances $7 million of the cost. Add in the upfront cost, and the Royals are paying less than $10 million of the cost. Sarpy County, by all accounts is going to spend $33 million. So I'm guilty of a slight rounding; it's closer to $23 million + interest.

If you want to stick to your $14 MM figure...fine. But then at least have the cajones to admit the ballpark is actually going to cost well over $50 million when interest charges are added. You can't mix and match those numbers.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
Go to Top of Page

MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  6:20:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have and yes I know what is going on...their are escalators after 5 years.

Also, using your numbers, are you saying that $7MM +$2.35MM + $4.5MM = $13.85MM (plus providing day-to-day expenses / franchise) of a $33MM project is not paying for any of it? You are really not serious are you? What if the NCAA were paying $13.85MM of the $200+MM project instead of receiving $5MM per year, would they be paying for some of the downtown stadium if they were putting in some money?
Go to Top of Page

West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  9:53:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

I have and yes I know what is going on...their are escalators after 5 years.

Also, using your numbers, are you saying that $7MM +$2.35MM + $4.5MM = $13.85MM (plus providing day-to-day expenses / franchise) of a $33MM project is not paying for any of it? You are really not serious are you? What if the NCAA were paying $13.85MM of the $200+MM project instead of receiving $5MM per year, would they be paying for some of the downtown stadium if they were putting in some money?


When did I say that the Royals are not paying for any of it?

What I said was that Sarpy County was paying $25 million (corrected to $23 million) "AFTER the Royals contribution". And that's been my criticism, as I do not believe you can justify that kind of investment solely for minor league baseball.

The CWS is a completely different animal; it brings thousands of people to town. It drives enough economic activity to justify the investment of $140 million. (Where the heck did you get your $200 million figure?) Especially when add in what will happen at the zoo now that they have the additional real estate.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
Go to Top of Page

MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  10:33:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]I wouldn't have an issue with the Sarpy County stadium (other than it's location) if the Royals were paying for it.
Go to Top of Page

Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  10:34:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the Royals stadium is going to be put out there with interest, then how much are we spending for Qwest and TD Ameritrade? I think the $140 million is before interest for the ballpark correct?

I think the total attendance numbers will be a battle. If the Royals draw 6k, that would be 420,000. I look for that stadium to host college tourneys or games as well. I imagine they will host concerts and other events as well.

I love the criticism of 2 ballparks. Yet we still have about 20 years of payments on Qwest and the MAC, throw in the new arena/ice in Ralston and talk of UNO building an arena....Makes sense to me!

Greg
Go to Top of Page

MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  10:35:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

I have and yes I know what is going on...their are escalators after 5 years.

Also, using your numbers, are you saying that $7MM +$2.35MM + $4.5MM = $13.85MM (plus providing day-to-day expenses / franchise) of a $33MM project is not paying for any of it? You are really not serious are you? What if the NCAA were paying $13.85MM of the $200+MM project instead of receiving $5MM per year, would they be paying for some of the downtown stadium if they were putting in some money?


When did I say that the Royals are not paying for any of it?

What I said was that Sarpy County was paying $25 million (corrected to $23 million) "AFTER the Royals contribution". And that's been my criticism, as I do not believe you can justify that kind of investment solely for minor league baseball.

The CWS is a completely different animal; it brings thousands of people to town. It drives enough economic activity to justify the investment of $140 million. (Where the heck did you get your $200 million figure?) Especially when add in what will happen at the zoo now that they have the additional real estate.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com



The MiLB is justified all accross the country as it is the 2nd drawing sport behind MLB. More than 130 ballpark built since 1994.

As far as the downtown stadium...the figure is just at $140MM now plus infrastructure work that has not and will not be included in the stadium budget of more than $55MM. That doesn't even include the $5MM per year (a $4MM per year increase) x 25 years to the NCAA ($125MM).
Go to Top of Page

West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2010 :  11:11:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MetroFan

quote:
[i]I wouldn't have an issue with the Sarpy County stadium (other than it's location) if the Royals were paying for it.



They aren't paying for most of it. As I pointed out, the Royals contributions aren't even covering 1/3 of the $31+ million cost.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
Go to Top of Page

buetane
All-Star Mav

Iceland
2568 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2010 :  01:11:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

Yet we still have about 20 years of payments on Qwest and the MAC...



We're helping to pay for arenas in other cities too? That sounds like a shot in the foot.
Go to Top of Page

Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2010 :  11:42:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by buetane

quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

Yet we still have about 20 years of payments on Qwest and the MAC...



We're helping to pay for arenas in other cities too? That sounds like a shot in the foot.



The metro area is. If you say we don't need to pay for two baseball stadiums (though Sarpy is paying for one and Omaha the other). Then you need to acknowledge that the Omaha metro area is currently paying for two large arena/convention centers. Will soon be paying for a 3rd in Ralson (or long shot it will be next to Royals Stadium), then we will be asked to donate/contribute to the UNO one along with providing millions for the infrastructure needed for that.

Greg
Go to Top of Page

nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2010 :  3:24:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike


I wouldn't have an issue with the Sarpy County stadium (other than it's location) if the Royals were paying for it.




but you did just two weeks ago. You said...

I still would have been against a second city-owned stadium even if it was downtown. I just don't see a need for two ballparks in the Omaha area. From my perspective, I'm glad the city isn't paying for two...but I think the metro area would be better off if there were only one.

Now, you are moving the goalposts because it was proven that you have a double standard when it comes to the new UNO arena. You changed your story from "I don't support two ballparks" to "I don't support two city funded ballparks."

It's your way of justifying your support for the UNO arena by saying you're ok with it because the city isn't paying for it. Even though, it will add a 4th arena to the metro area with seating capacity over 6k. It will also most certainly take money off the table at the Qwest Center. And, it will cost the city money in infrastructure work that UNO will be unwilling to pay for themselves.

There's no possible way you can deny that your stance on this is anything less than a double standard.

Once again, why does the city need 4 arenas with over 6k in capacity (Qwest, Civic, MAC, & UNO Arena), but the metro area is wasting resources with two seperate baseball stadiums with vastly different configurations in two seperate municipalities?

I'll hang up and listen.
Go to Top of Page

Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2010 :  5:48:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I went to the O Royals game today. Nice day it turns out for baseball. Saw the model of the new stadium. Looks very cool to me.

Greg
Go to Top of Page

MetroFan
Freshman Mav

212 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2010 :  8:56:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
West O obviously has an issue with pro/affiliated baseball. if not, then I don't understand some of his responses.
Go to Top of Page

West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2010 :  10:36:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nousefouraname

quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike


I wouldn't have an issue with the Sarpy County stadium (other than it's location) if the Royals were paying for it.




but you did just two weeks ago. You said...

I still would have been against a second city-owned stadium even if it was downtown. I just don't see a need for two ballparks in the Omaha area. From my perspective, I'm glad the city isn't paying for two...but I think the metro area would be better off if there were only one.

Now, you are moving the goalposts because it was proven that you have a double standard when it comes to the new UNO arena. You changed your story from "I don't support two ballparks" to "I don't support two city funded ballparks."

It's your way of justifying your support for the UNO arena by saying you're ok with it because the city isn't paying for it. Even though, it will add a 4th arena to the metro area with seating capacity over 6k. It will also most certainly take money off the table at the Qwest Center. And, it will cost the city money in infrastructure work that UNO will be unwilling to pay for themselves.

There's no possible way you can deny that your stance on this is anything less than a double standard.

Once again, why does the city need 4 arenas with over 6k in capacity (Qwest, Civic, MAC, & UNO Arena), but the metro area is wasting resources with two seperate baseball stadiums with vastly different configurations in two seperate municipalities?

I'll hang up and listen.


I'm not moving the target here; I've been consistent all along.

When I say "I wouldn't have an issue with the Sarpy County stadium (other than it's location) if the Royals were paying for it." ... I'm saying that if the Royals were paying for the Sarpy stadium, it would be fine. I think BFE is a stupid location, and that's my only problem. But to clarify things, if they wanted to build it at BFE, in Yutan or on top of the Douglas County Landfill, if they are paying for it, that's their business. But if the Royals wanted to pay for it, it's their business decision where to build it, as long as it meets zoning rules and the general plan for the area.

So two weeks earlier when I said
I still would have been against a second city-owned stadium even if it was downtown. I just don't see a need for two ballparks in the Omaha area. From my perspective, I'm glad the city isn't paying for two...but I think the metro area would be better off if there were only one.
I was again pointing to a government-owned and paid for ballpark.

And despite the Royals kicking in $9 million, I still consider BFE to be a government paid for ballpark. If the Royals were to plunk down $30 million of their own money to pay for the new ballpark, I'd say "go right ahead". That's the great thing with America, you can do just about anything you want with your money.

As for the multiple arenas in Omaha, the Civic is due to be bulldozed at some time in the distant future. It's functionally obsolete, and the city master plan calls for the site to be an office building sometime in the next 25 years.

The MAC is a mistake that Council Bluffs made, but it doesn't solve anything for UNO either.

I would like to see UNO hockey try to make a go with the Qwest Center, but I think we've learned that it's not a good match. Too far from campus, and no practice facility nearby. Plus, UNO gets bumped too many times for other events.

But that being said, I don't support the city funding a new arena for UNO unless a business need can be shown for a second arena if/when the Civic goes away. Trev Alberts will have to find a way for UNO to fund it, and I'm pretty sure he'll do it.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
Go to Top of Page

nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2010 :  07:07:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well, i still thing you're moving the goalposts. despite what you say above, it sure didn't sound like you were pointing to simply being against a 2nd city owned park 2 weeks ago. still seems revisionist to me.

also, most of what you said as reasons for UNO needing their own facility can be used for the royals. isn't the royals getting bumped too many times for other events at the heart of the stadium debate from the get go? also, too far from campus can be changed to too far from their demographic for the royals.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 107 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
MP Message Board © 2000-2017 MavPuck.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000