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MavBridget
The Girl Wonder

France
6424 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  10:18:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I told Jon that when people go to movies and out to eat less and less, Fahey will impose a "stay at home tax" for people that eat at home and watch DVDs instead of going to movie theatres. "You're not paying your fair share of the costs by not going out as much, so we will be collecting a tax from you to make sure you're contributing to this fine event."

I like the idea of the "downtown entertainment district" -- and yes, that would include the Qwest Center, so we probably couldn't get out of paying the 2% tax on our hockey tickets ... but at least if I went to a movie at AMC Oakview, I'm not subsidizing the ballpark.
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hackermav
Minister of Antagonism

1039 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  10:43:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Here's what I'd like to see them do. I think if we want to raise taxes on food/beverage and entertainment, it should be within a certain "zone" of Omaha -- namely downtown Omaha.

I realize people might stay all over the city when attending the CWS. However, the merchants that benefit the most from the $40 million "economic impact" will be in downtown.

I'd like to see a zone (roughly the old market on the south, the interstate on the west, the river on the east, and a few blocks north of Cuming) be labeled the "entertainment district."



So only certain people would then pay for the stadium? I am not in favor of that. It is anti to how this city and state are moving. See the Learning Community. Everyone is responsible for everything. We all should pay for this thing.
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Mojo325is
McQueen...

Brazil
1654 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  10:47:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If anyone wants to see how much a new stadium helped a minor league franchise and increased revenue for a city, look no further than Albuquerque.

When we build the new park, this is a great stadium to use as a blue print...

New Park: http://www.digitalballparks.com/PCL/Isotopes.html

Old Park: http://www.digitalballparks.com/PacificCoast/Albuquerque.html

------------


Trying to elude the Mickey Mouse Brigade
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CaseyMav
#10

Botswana
2337 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  11:04:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those sites gave me a good laugh...

Page 1:


After I'd steeled myself for the enormity of the photos:


---
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  11:15:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hackermav

quote:
Here's what I'd like to see them do. I think if we want to raise taxes on food/beverage and entertainment, it should be within a certain "zone" of Omaha -- namely downtown Omaha.

I realize people might stay all over the city when attending the CWS. However, the merchants that benefit the most from the $40 million "economic impact" will be in downtown.

I'd like to see a zone (roughly the old market on the south, the interstate on the west, the river on the east, and a few blocks north of Cuming) be labeled the "entertainment district."



So only certain people would then pay for the stadium? I am not in favor of that. It is anti to how this city and state are moving. See the Learning Community. Everyone is responsible for everything. We all should pay for this thing.



Then Mayor Fahey should be willing to sell this thing to Omaha and raise everyone's property taxes by a few dollars per year.

He won't because he knows it is political suicide.

My feeling is that downtown merchants benefit the most from the CWS.

You have a lot of people who purchased property down in the area years ago when the city was practically giving it away. They've been sitting on it -- waiting for something big to happen that'll allow them to make a tidy profit by either developing the property, or selling it to another interest.

Businesses like M's Pub or The French Cafe make a considerable haul each year during the CWS. Once the stadium is in their backyard, they stand to make more.

For a business in that area, the city government is basically parking several thousand potential customers in their backyard for 10-days per year.

I own a small business. When was the last time the city built a $200 million "anything" that brought thousands of customers directly to my door?

I am all for taxpayers paying "their fair share." But in the case of these sorts of civic projects, the "economic impact" is concentrated among a few businesses -- namely the hotels, restaurants and various merchants that are within close proximity that benefit from the "brunt" of the halo effect.

Ask any merchant in the Old Market about the economic impact from the large crowds at Creighton Basketball games at the Qwest Center. They are thrilled to have lots of people wearing blue patronizing their restaurants each winter.

In large part, they have the taxpayers of Omaha to thank for that.

And I am happy that we were able to build something that helps to increase customer traffic to their restaurant.

But what about a business at 144th and Center that doesn't have a 30,000-seat stadium or 17,000-seat arena two blocks away? What is the government doing to help them?

I realize it is much easier to create sweeping tax increases that take from everyone. But honestly, events like the NCAA College World Series, NCAA Volleyball Final Four and the U.S. Olympic Swim Trials help a number of businesses thrive in that area.

Because of the assistance that the government gives those businesses with various "urban renewal" efforts, I think it only appropriate that they "collect" a higher sales tax percentage to help fund those changes.

But maybe that is just me.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  11:22:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll post more this weekend. 2% would never stop me from going out. If it did, then I probably should not have gone out in the first place.

The whole city benefits from this. When I was in college I worked for Younkers during the summer. We sold a lot during the CWS to out of town fans (made a fortune from LSU, they would practically buy anything in purple).

Greg
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Hal Dawg
Movie Star...

1210 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  11:37:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's interesting how the discussion threads go on sport-specific forums. But on the TV forums (wowt.com, ketv.com), the majority of posts are staunchly opposed to Fahey's plan (like I am).

I'm a lifelong Omahan, have worked in sports and PR forever and attended the CWS way back when the bleachers were wooden and games were not on ESPN. I have to question the motives of the we'll-do-anything-to-keep-the-CWS politicians. As Joe Jordan likes to say, "Follow the money..."
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  12:29:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't necessarily have a problem with a new stadium.

Restaurants and entertainment venues (like movie theaters) already struggle to attract and keep customers.

Increasing costs for patrons to patronize those businesses makes it even more difficult for those establishments to survive and thrive.

We've all heard multiple stories over the past year about the "glut" of restaurants in Omaha (particularly out west). We've seen a number of them fail because the residential developments haven't brought in enough customers to cover the glut.

The city is interested in dowtown development and urban renewal to solve problems such as crime and to broaden the tax base of the city. That's why we have events like the CWS.

There is a trickle down benefit from having those events that we all benefit from. However, there are certain merchants (like hotels and restaurants within the immediate vicinity) that make a mint from those events.

They essentially have a "captive" audience for 10 days each year. The people who fly into Omaha and stay downtown plunk a lot of money down for merchants in the area immediately surrounding the event.

In my mind, labeling downtown as the "entertainment district" and assessing a higher sales tax on patrons who do things in that area makes sense.

Obviously, you stand to increase your revenue if you have a "city-wide" tax. I am sure civic officials were reluctant to raise sales tax "across the board" on all businesses...hence the reason we targeted food and entertainment.
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hackermav
Minister of Antagonism

1039 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  1:24:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Businesses like M's Pub or The French Cafe make a considerable haul each year during the CWS. Once the stadium is in their backyard, they stand to make more.


But so does a place like Big Fred's on 120th and Pacific.

quote:
But what about a business at 144th and Center that doesn't have a 30,000-seat stadium or 17,000-seat arena two blocks away? What is the government doing to help them?


Everything this city does that can generate tax revenue, bring in out of town guests, and have hometown food/merchandise helps everyone of us with more tax money in the coffers. We are all paying for the Qwest, and all benefitting from it as well. Why would this be any different?

Personally I like the Alb field, it reminds me a little of Petco Park in the feel of it with the open concourses and outfield seating area.

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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  1:43:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Restaurants in many locales make money throughout the year. But that isn't my point.

My point is that the CWS -- which is a government-subsidized event -- is bringing in outside consumers that generate huge sales for the merchants in downtown Omaha.

Their revenues will increase when the stadium is in their backyard.

Sure, there might be somebody who travels here from Tennessee who decides to go to lunch at the Olive Garden at 168th and W. Center Road during the College World Series.

However, the "impact" isn't the same as if you are Old Chicago in the Old Market during the series.
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The Basement
Inconceivable!

Italy
870 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  1:46:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like this stadium. They should build something like this, and stop thinking so small. It is only 42,445 fixed seats.

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Hal Dawg
Movie Star...

1210 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  2:02:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I had something more like this in mind.
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hackermav
Minister of Antagonism

1039 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  2:56:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I had something more like this in mind.


I love the open concourse there. It would still take about $50 million to Rosenblatt to look like that.
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who dey
Sophomore Mav

USA
456 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  3:42:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think fast food should be excluded from an "entertainment" tax, that is NOT entertainment.
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  4:43:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
More reaction...including an artistic rendering...

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10150467

quote:
Councilmen Sigerson, Welch, Jim Vokal and Garry Gernandt said they would not support any stadium financing plan that increases the city property tax.

But Vokal said that the proposed entertainment tax would generally have the same effect as a boost in the property tax rate, because nearly all Omahans eat out on occasion and enjoy other entertainment.

"My concern is that it simply shifts the tax burden. This is money that would otherwise come from a property tax increase," Vokal said.


quote:
Councilman Jim Suttle said he was disappointed that Fahey did not provide more financial details. He suggested that an independent consultant should perform a financial feasibility study of the project that would look at costs and potential revenues, among other things.

"I cannot support giving the mayor a blank check on the downtown stadium nor a Rosenblatt renovation/reconstruction without a vote of the people," Suttle said.

Most council members said Thursday that they did not know if they would support the proposed entertainment tax and that they will be waiting for public reaction before making any decisions.
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Hal Dawg
Movie Star...

1210 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  4:49:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My councilman (Gerry Gernandt) was quick to respond to my e-mail today - which asked him not to support the proposal as it stands.
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adammd
Sophomore Mav

463 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  4:53:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While I am not a fan of a new stadium, I like the tax structure.

Let all who come to Omaha to eat, play, etc pay for it rather than just those who live north of harrison.

I rarely eat fast food or at any other restaurants for that matter, this portion of the tax will bypass me, but not most of Omaha. I do think its great to punish those people. After all, that food is unhealthy (leads to more medical costs), and most of those people are probably ban/tax smoking people anyway, so let them have a taste of it. Speaking of, why didn't they just add 3 or 4 dollars to each pack of smokes. That would have been the easy target, 80% of Omaha would have been in favor, now your messing with peoples food choices!!!!

Entertainment tax, lol. Minimum donation at the strip bars is now $1.02. I finally have somewhere for my pennies!!!!!!
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  4:56:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We also ought to setup a toll booth on our side of the Missouri River pedestrian bridge to collect money from the people who stay in Counciltucky.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  5:36:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do we really have one of the highest hotel/lodging taxes in the nation???? I've traveled for work and pleasure over the years and it seems like everywhere I go (at least in major cities at least) have a pretty significant hotel tax.

An extra 2% for my meal at McDonald's (over my family of four) just doesn't seem that much to me.

I wonder how this debate would be going if this tax was going to build a new UNO hockey arena....:)

Greg
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  7:40:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

Do we really have one of the highest hotel/lodging taxes in the nation???? I've traveled for work and pleasure over the years and it seems like everywhere I go (at least in major cities at least) have a pretty significant hotel tax.


As of 2000 (when we voted on the convention center/arena), we have had a hotel tax of 15.96 percent.

Houston is the highest in the nation at 17 percent.

New York City was the previous high in the mid-1990s, but they were able to repeal the "state" part of the lodging tax because it was hurting tourism in the city.

The pillow tax combines city, state and county lodging taxes...from what I have been able to glean...
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MavBridget
The Girl Wonder

France
6424 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  8:07:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would have the same problem with it if it were going to support a UNO hockey arena.

I've said before on here that the UNO arena should be paid for with private donations (big donors as well as smaller $2K seat licenses, and $100 bricks out front) as well as revenue generated from its operations. I wouldn't ask the citizens of the city of Omaha to pay $30-$40 million so that I can enjoy UNO hockey in a beautiful new facility ... just as I think John Q. Public shouldn't have to pay more for a SINGLE-SPORT facility.

The Qwest Center was different ... it was multi-purpose, and hosts more than just sports (conventions, concerts, trade shows, etc.). Fahey wants ALL citizens to pony up for a single-sport stadium to keep one 10-day sporting event... and to make the Omaha Royals happy. Unbelievable.

I like what Severe & Kugler had to say on Unsportsmanlike Conduct today. Let those who will enjoy the facility pay for it. (Tax $$ will be used on upkeep ... that's how we'll all be paying.) Levy a $5 per ticket tax on all reserved seats. Increase the hotel tax, and the rental car tax.

Establish Jon's "entertainment district" downtown and have the merchants who will most benefit pick up "most" of the cost. Have those who attend the event pay the majority of the rest.
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Hal Dawg
Movie Star...

1210 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2007 :  11:16:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A six-year-old girl (or eight-year-old, depending on which TV station you were watching) was shot and killed tonight. The puts the city's murder count close to 40 for the year. I'd rather see the city spend a little money replacing the dozens (yes, dozens) of police officers who are retiring this year. You only have to read The Shield (the police union's publication) to find out what a staffing crisis the OPD will be in by year's end because of retirements and a lack of replacement recruit classes.
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mavgirl84
Junior Mav

USA
532 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2007 :  12:09:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kBiyhsft5y4

quote:
Originally posted by admin

I think it is a dumb idea to put a new stadium in a Qwest Center parking lot (which is what the current proposal is). I think a new stadium -- in concept -- is fine, but let's not cut out downtown parking (which is necessary for the event) to do it.

Let's also not make it a total "nightmare" for people who need to go to the airport during the week of the CWS. I don't think it is the most "brilliant" plan to create gridlock on the main artery that Omahans use to get to-and-from Eppley. If you put the CWS there, that is what will inevitably happen.

BTW...does anyone have the link to the Kevin Costner ad...I'd like to see it...

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UNOMav
Aiming for #1

British Indian Ocean Territories
964 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2007 :  12:17:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hal Dawg

I'd rather see the city spend a little money replacing the dozens (yes, dozens) of police officers who are retiring this year. You only have to read The Shield (the police union's publication) to find out what a staffing crisis the OPD will be in by year's end because of retirements and a lack of replacement recruit classes.


Since it was mentioned...as a side note to the whole stadium debate. You know why they are retiring in such huge numbers? You would faint if you knew what some of these guys...plus the firefighters, are getting for a pension. I have seen ones as high as 8,000+ per month. Their pensions programs are hundreds of millions underfunded. Guess who will get to cover a majority of that...certainly NOT the police and fire...but the taxpayers of Omaha. Thank Fahey for that...what a diptwizzlers. The stadium is peanuts compared to this colossal screwup.

The union negotiated this contract...with the help of the brilliant Mayor and council...that has police and fire retiring in droves. The police are partially to blame for this situation...

Still aiming for #1.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2007 :  09:22:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the stadium does go north of Qwest (I still like the area next to Slowdown better) it will not be that big of deal for getting to airport during the CWS. Just go North Omaha freeway to Sorensen, and go the back route. It's not even that bad a way to go from downtown. Our airport is about the most convienent around.

Merchants all over the Metro benefit from the CWS. Ever try to find a hotel room anywhere in the area during the CWS. My company always checks when it is and avoids Omaha during this time for travel because hotels are so hard to come by. Those people staying all over the city, spend all over the city because of their hotel location. Also if they are here to support a speciific team, on their off days they also go out exploring.

I went to KC for the Big 12 last year. Even though the game was at the Truman Sports Complex, we spent money in the Plaza area, and out on the Kansas side where we stayed. Same thing happens here. The entertainment area downtown is too small in scope on where the impact from this event is felt.

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2007 :  10:00:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Quibble about the details of the financing plan if you wish.

But if the NCAA is going to guarantee us 20 years for approximately $100 million investment...

Grab it.

Don't even think twice about it.

One Billion Dollars is the reward. I can't believe we're b*tching about paying 20 cents more for a beer. Come up with an alternative then. But the outrage I'm seeing is insane.

Listen to AJ... do it. Quibble about the details if we must. Look at alternative ways to fund this if you wish. But lock this baby up.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2007 :  11:22:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

Come up with an alternative then. But the outrage I'm seeing is insane.



1. Jack Up Ticket Prices: The CWS is one of the "cheapest" NCAA D-I championship tickets. They need to increase prices and priority seating fees and donations.

2. Institute Seat Licenses for the Series: Have people pay thousands of dollars per year to "own" their seat for the series and for other events.

3. Find a Better Anchor Tenant than the Royals: They are "freeloaders" to the highest degree. No one cares about the team (my apologies to the dozen or so ORoyals fans out there). You could put the Royals in the Taj Mahal with gold-plated bats and no one would come to watch. We NEED someone in addition to the CWS to generate revenue in that facility.

4. Create an "Entertainment District" in Downtown that is Subject to Higher Taxation than the Rest of the City: If school districts can pass their own tax increases and levys, there is no reason we can't make the people who are going to benefit most from the $1 billion over 20 years help to pay for the facility.

5. Employ various occupancy taxes on things like rental cars to help pay for this facility (in addition to the pillow taxes we already have)

6. Increase concession prices at the series

7. Pass a tax increase for a limited period of time (say five years). Re-evaluate in 5 years time to determine if revenues from the series (including things like seat licenses mentioned above) allow the city to cover their annual bond payment without the "entertainment tax."
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mrkaline
Mav Scout in Indiana

Poland
1475 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2007 :  11:33:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by admin

quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

Come up with an alternative then. But the outrage I'm seeing is insane.



1. Jack Up Ticket Prices: The CWS is one of the "cheapest" NCAA D-I championship tickets. They need to increase prices and priority seating fees and donations.

2. Institute Seat Licenses for the Series: Have people pay thousands of dollars per year to "own" their seat for the series and for other events.

6. Increase concession prices at the series



Great John, you want the "brie" to take over the CWS....
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2007 :  11:48:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mrkaline

quote:
Originally posted by admin

quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

Come up with an alternative then. But the outrage I'm seeing is insane.



1. Jack Up Ticket Prices: The CWS is one of the "cheapest" NCAA D-I championship tickets. They need to increase prices and priority seating fees and donations.

2. Institute Seat Licenses for the Series: Have people pay thousands of dollars per year to "own" their seat for the series and for other events.

6. Increase concession prices at the series



Great John, you want the "brie" to take over the CWS....



I know, Mark, it sounds bad.

But when I consider what we pay for Frozen Four tickets, these folks are getting a steal on seats.

I agree with the notion that the people who support and love the event need to open up their pocketbooks the most.

Why institute a tax that'll be in place for "the rest of our lives" if we can limit the impact on consumers and small businesses by "maximizing" the revenue from the event?

When you have a waiting list for seats, that means you can charge a premium.

If the "economic impact" of the event is the important thing, then it shouldn't matter if Dale and Dottie Emerson are able to keep the seats they've had for 50 years.

With a new pricier pricing structure in place, it'd be likely that people would purchase tickets in "packages" rather than for the entire event.

Not only would it expose more people to the event, it'd put more money in the city coffers.

If we truly want to compete with "the big boys" and keep this event financially soluble (and keep revenue flowing to Omaha), then we need to charge like the big cities.

I mean, we don't have an MLB team to pay expenses and generate revenue for half the year. It has been proven time and again the minor league sports are not successful in Omaha.

As such, we are building a $100 million facility (which'll end up costing nearly $200 million when all is said and done) for a 10-day event.

I have no problem with that whatsoever.

But what that means is that we need to maximize the revenue we are taking at the event itself instead of "shifting" it around.

We can't have our cake and eat it, too.

If we want to compete with all of these cities that are apparently "chomping at the bit" to get the CWS, then we need to start paying prices that are congruent with that strategy.
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PirateMav
Monongahela Monster

New Zealand
506 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2007 :  1:48:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

Quibble about the details of the financing plan if you wish.

But if the NCAA is going to guarantee us 20 years for approximately $100 million investment.

Grab it.

Don't even think twice about it.

One Billion Dollars is the reward. I can't believe we're b*tching about paying 20 cents more for a beer. Come up with an alternative then. But the outrage I'm seeing is insane.

Listen to AJ... do it. Quibble about the details if we must. Look at alternative ways to fund this if you wish. But lock this baby up.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com


This is why I'm having problems with the "Save Rosenblatt" people. We invest $100m and receive, in net benefits to the city and surrounding areas, a much higher return. The horse is out of the barn on this one. If we don't build a newer stadium, someone else will. When someone else does, and bends the right ears with the NCAA the series is G-O-N-E.

The money that it brings to the city is G-O-N-E.

The good publicity that it brings to Omaha is G-O-N-E.

The value of the name of Omaha (luxuries found in bigger cities, safety and friendliness found in smaller cities) is G-O-N-E.

The only things we'll be keeping are Rosenblatt and the same "Oh, not here, we don't like that sort of thing here" mentality that keeps us from becoming a great city.

Consider the CWS as a "customer" of Omaha. I'd much rather we built a newer and better facility in the same city, and kept our customer happy, than we ignore the customer and throw up a couple coats of paint on a rundown building and forced that customer to not only realize that a better deal could be found but also seek it out...which won't be that hard because there are other cities that would love to have the CWS in their backyard.

If we want to keep the CWS around, we're going to have to act like it once in a while.



Never drive faster than you can see.
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