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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2009 :  12:35:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

I'm very supportive of doing what it takes to keep the Royals but the $10 average for tickets seems high to me, along with $20 for every ticket.

Seriously, what do you expect to happen with the Royals in Sarpy County? They currently average 5400 fans per game, and they are moving into a 6000 seat ballpark, with SRO bumping max capacity to around 9000. They aren't going to get quite the bump in attendance unless they sell out on April and May mid-week evenings. The Royals are also paying significantly more for Sarpy than at Rosenblatt, so their costs are going up.

The Royals have talked about making it a "tough ticket"...scarcity means higher prices.



Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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MavBridget
The Girl Wonder

France
6424 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2009 :  1:03:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think he means **assuming** $10 for each patron (ticket) NOW is high ... Is that really a reflection of average ticket prices being paid now? (I.e., with free ticket giveaways, buy-one-get-ones, etc." Also, I'm not sure if the $20 figure is "per person" or "per group" (i.e., mom, dad, 1 kid) ...

Excellent analysis, though, Telepro.
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adammd
Sophomore Mav

463 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2009 :  1:23:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Telepro

350,000 fans @ $10 dollar ticket& $20 Concessions = $10.5 million Dollars


For Stein and Co, not sarpy. Or maybe I missed where Sarpy negotiated that they now keep all ticket revenue. Shrewed negotiaions for sure.

quote:
Originally posted by Telepro

7% sales tax on $10.5 million= $750,000 per year


No wonder Sarpy is better at negotiating ballparks, they get to keep the State's sales tax to themselves, Douglas has to give the state the 5.5% that is theirs.

quote:
Originally posted by Telepro

Most Convention & Visitors Bearuas quote a 3-5 times multipication factor for Visitors.


But we don't have a lot of foreign or out of state visitors coming to Royals games. I guess maybe between the games, batting practice, resting, etc the ball players may act like tourists and spend the 3-5X number referenced, and surely none of that money will be spent north of Harrison St.

quote:
Originally posted by Telepro

This is virtually a no lose for Sarpy County.


I think you mean for the Royals, who get all the revenue and have little responsibilty on the expense end.

Speaking of expenses, why even mention that there are costs Sarpy will have for the next 25 years. Oh yeah, it isn't mentioned.


quote:
Originally posted by Telepro

The "STUPID" move is to tear down the $50million dollar Facility of Rosenblatt and force the Royals to move. Douglas County & Omaha lose; Sarpy County Wins.


Hopefully Sarpy will win, but I will disagree on the omaha loses part. The city was losing 750K per year. And not like they wont get some revenue from the team sticking around, off their dime.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2009 :  4:12:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I imagine when they get to Sarpy they won't have to do $2 tickets, get in free with whatever grocery product you bring to a sunday game type stuff. I don't look for a major ticket price increase since they are pretty much in line with national minor league ticket prices.

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2009 :  4:43:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Go to an Iowa Cubs game and you'll quickly learn that a quality atmosphere will up the value of the AAA product. When you see a game at Principle Park (still not even one of the best AAA parks) and you realize just how much Rosenblatt is killing the Royals chances at success.

With a decent new stadium, I could see the Royals prices being more in line with the Iowa Cubs ($7/$10/$12/$20) rather than what I believe the Royals day of game rates are right now ($6/$8/$10). There is a difference there.

After they move, the next step should be to upgrade the Royals amateurish logo and uniforms.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2009 :  4:51:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Royals have already stated that they will be updating their uni's and such. You can still get some deals on I Cubs tix as well.

Greg
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  12:29:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I heard Stein badmouthing the Golden Spikes decision from a few years back on Channel 3 the other night.

He instantly loses any backing from me.

Go back to Kentucky ya hayseed SOB. You can turn Casey fat and blue, you can jack up prices, but don't for one f'ing second think that was done half-a$sed. We sold more merch in the opening homestand than we did the previous 3 years under the old stupid "Royals" name.

AND IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THE "TRADITION" TAKE THE F'ING RED OUT OF YOUR UNIFORMS.

Idiot
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  1:29:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the red is HORRENDOUS. So is the gold "O" with the white gradient often in it. It is so incredibly amateurish it's not even funny. seriously.

You know, I don't remember much of the spikes days (even though I worked there part of the time), but while they may have sold alot of merchandise it didn't seem to go over that well in the long run. What really happened to sour that whole thing? Or, was it just the team being so horrible and people pushing to "go back to basics".
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adammd
Sophomore Mav

463 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  1:34:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AJMav

I heard Stein badmouthing the Golden Spikes decision from a few years back on Channel 3 the other night.

He instantly loses any backing from me.

Go back to Kentucky ya hayseed SOB. You can turn Casey fat and blue, you can jack up prices, but don't for one f'ing second think that was done half-a$sed. We sold more merch in the opening homestand than we did the previous 3 years under the old stupid "Royals" name.

AND IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THE "TRADITION" TAKE THE F'ING RED OUT OF YOUR UNIFORMS.

Idiot



AJ, did you catch the part about where they discussed it being the Omaha Royals vs the Sarpy/Bellevue/I-80 corridor/La-Vista/etc. Royals

He mentioned they hired someone else to look into it, but based on other assessments, it usually gets a new name, at least that's how I took it. The question was asked in a way saying, your not going to allienate people by changing the name are you.

I don't know if it would do that or not with a new name change, not really my area of expertise, but I can't see why you would change the name either.
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  1:47:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They won't change the name again...and the reason why is because the people who take those "survey's" are the hard core 500 or so people who are the HARD CORE ORoyal fans. I'm talking season tickets for 40 years...show up when it's 30 degrees in April kind of fans. THEY are the ones who are completely delusional that the name "Royals" holds some kind of mystique. Meanwhile, there are only TWO AAA teams named after their parent club...and one is the Cubs. (Do they have more drawing power than the name "royals?"

Matt Minker, who for the record was twice the idiot that Stein is...heard an earfull from these morons, and quickly tried to save face when he bought the team. He turned Casey fat and blue, he fired their ad agency, and he added that hidious freaking red into the color scheme.

Again, how can you have "Tradition" when your logo and uniforms look like something out of the Independent league?

Funny they don't mention how much merch they sell now. I GUARANTEE it wasn't as much as we made in 2 months as the Spikes. (The Blue, gold and red was sharp looking I thought..as was the ball/spike navy hat).

They're run like a minor league team...they're run BY a minor league owner, who doens't know any better..and he's single-handedly...along with Roger Dixon...completely screwed over the community by buidling a glorified high school field, instead of negotiating with good faith to fill that 150 million dollar white elephant downtown.

Oh, and we have a slight budget problem in the city too.

http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10642354

Mike Fahey wanted to be known as the mayor who saved the College World Series. Instead, he will be know as the may who saved the CWS and wasted 200 million dollars in taxpayer money for a stadium to be used 2 weeks. Meanwhile, pools and libraries close and kids have less and less to do in the summer.

Maybe they can walk up to the wall of the new downtown stadium and look insdie through the fence? That should kill 15 minutes or so.

I'm on fire today about this stuff.

Go Wings Go
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  2:50:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alan Stein/Martie Cordero have been great as owners as far as I'm concerned. Best we've had from a fan's perspective.

AJ-I agree with you I loved the Spikes name but we were definitely in a minority on that.

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  2:59:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
here's an ugly story from the world of minor league baseball and ballparks. Autozone is considered one of the best if not the best minor league ballpark in baseball. ouch.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/mound-city-money/st-louis-companies/2009/05/memphis-redbirds-default-on-stadium-bonds/
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  3:07:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
AJ: You are right on the logo and uniforms. In addition to the ugly logos, I've found that the uni's (especially the alternate blue) have this weird look to them where the jerseys just look cheap and the numbers almost look ironed on. Look at other teams that come to rosenblatt and they never look so chintzy.

For my money, I was never too for or against the name change. It didn't strike a chord with me one way or another. I kinda thought they needed a change because the Royals were so hopeless that you didn't want to play up an affiliation with them. However, after they announced it would be "Golden Spikes" it sounded stupid to me from day one considering that the Golden Spike isn't anywhere near omaha. Just Spikes would have worked, but the Golden Spikes thing turned alot of people off to begin with, I think because it came off as dumb. It didn't "honor our railroad tradition", it just made us look geographically or historically impaired. Then, they debuted the uniforms and logo and they really didn't look that great either. Basically, it was a chance to do something really good and give the team its own unique identity, but the whole project ended up being a swing and a miss so to speak.

Then, when they decided to "take it back to basics", I was fine with that too; however, I would have liked them to go back to the KC uniforms with the cursive O on the hats. Those are pretty classy and kind of timeless. Instead, they came up with the current abomination that is a logo and color scheme. Another swing and a miss.

Really, until recently, the franchise has had nothing but one mistake after another since the early 90's. They are just starting to turn it around.

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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  3:45:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You have to remember a couple of things though....

1) Golden Spikes was the official name, but almost everything from press releases to signage etc was "Spikes".

2) The Union Pacific owned us. Do the math there.

3) The team in Albuquerque is named the "Isotopes" after a Simpson's episode. Yes...a AAA team is named after a CARTOON EPISODE FROM TEN YEARS AGO. Those sort of names are stupid in deed...but they sell merchendise, and that's the name of the game.

The problem was..the only people that REALLY cared, were the super-small section of ticket holders who were there every day and didn't want their lives to change. Meanwhile, the team made like $500 in merch sales from 1980-1995.

4) You should have seen the names we rejected

5) As for Greg's comment...I haven't met Stein, and I don't keep in close contact with my friends at the team whom are still there. However, as nice of a guy as he seems...I think he completely and totally overestimates people's willingness to pay for minor-league wacky-ness. I say again..people here think of their sports as major league level, even if they aren't. They want free stuff, fireworks and TV cameras...not dizzy bat races.

I see why he is using his new found nut-grip with the city the way he is....but he doesn't have his "fans" best intrest in mind. The fans' "best intrest" is to utilize a 150 million dollar facility that was built (we thought), to develop downtown. Not a glorified Seymour Smith-type park that barely has more seats than a high school field.

I was cheerleader #1 for the stadium downtown.

This whole thing is beyond dumb, and makes the entire town look stupid.

Just My 2 cents
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  4:22:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do agree with everything you said for the most part.

1. Honestly, I kinda thought they transitioned more towards Spikes after the first season. The official logo did say "golden spikes" with the baseball with a railroad spike through it. However, by that time, the damage was done. Many people had already soured on the name because local and a couple of national sportswriters had made a point to show everyone how silly the name was for a team playing in Omaha.

2. I liked the name spikes. I really did. You could have just called them the Omaha Spikes and used the railroad spike as a logo from the get go and I think UP would have been happy with the railroad tie-in. I just think the name and the logos themselves were just executed poorly.

3. Very true. There are tons of teams in the minors with silly nicknames. there really are. At least the Isotopes name makes sense for Albuquerque though because the team in the Simpsons did move to Albuquerque. Calling Omaha the Golden Spikes would have been like Salt Lake City taking the name of the Isotopes.

4. I remember a ballot of some sort being in the OWH and I seem to remember there being some truly horrendous names out of the 3 or 4 finalists. Golden Spikes pretty much won by default. Do you remember any of the other finalists. I'd love to know. I was actually just thinking about that the other day.

5. Agree with your points on 5; however, one thing to add. I firmly believe that a nice new minor league ballpark will revitalize the atmoshphere and people will look at the Royals as a closer to major league product because it'll feel more big time. From the intimacy to the actual build of the stadium, it'll give people more of a sense of enjoyment and pride in it. Right now, there is nothing special about sitting in a sea of decrepit red, yellow, and blue seats. yuck.

6. Now I know how Misty 540 became walk-up music for a couple of years at Rosenblatt. That was always pretty cool.
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  4:48:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Golden Spikes
Mustangs
Outlaws
River Bandits

My two favorites that were rejected:
Steamers (Logo prototype was cool)
Bullfrogs (Sounds dumb..but cool colors and marketing)

And you win all-time favorite poster for dropping the Jank 1000 reference on me. You win a gold star. Bravo for figuring that out Mr. Nugent.
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Bigredmed
Senior Mav

1574 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  5:15:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
AJ, please recall that ABQ's original name was the "Dukes". This derived from Albuquerque being named for a Spanish duke and every thing that stands still long enough without a name eventually gets called "Duke" (About as boring as us naming the team the Royals after KC).

Also, ABQ is home to a large nuclear weapons depot and a number of nuclear research labs, so the name "Isotopes" was funny to them. I imagine that the "Dukes" were sounding a little dull and they went for a laugh.

Even though the Simpsons episode is old, the joke has some independent ground to stand on (or perhaps radiate from) in light of the 1000's of kg of enriched Uranium that live just south of town.
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MavEconomist
Junior Mav

Tonga
585 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  6:42:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Albuquerque adopted the Isotopes name because the Portland Beavers (formerly known as the Albuquerque Dukes) would not relinquish/sell/return/whatever the Dukes name. Since the PCL was no help in returning the name, Albuquerque chose the most ridiculous option available to them.

************************************************
res ipsa loquitur
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2009 :  08:13:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
it's a stupid name
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MavEconomist
Junior Mav

Tonga
585 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2009 :  09:43:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, we know.

************************************************
res ipsa loquitur
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mrkaline
Mav Scout in Indiana

Poland
1475 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2009 :  10:12:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AJMav



Mike Fahey wanted to be known as the mayor who saved the College World Series. Instead, he will be know as the may who saved the CWS and wasted 200 million dollars in taxpayer money for a stadium to be used 2 weeks. Meanwhile, pools and libraries close and kids have less and less to do in the summer.

Go Wings Go



Did you really say "and kids have less and less to do in the summer"??? Maybe they can put down their Ipods, Cell phones, Wii's, and go outside and play like we all did without public pools or adult supervision.

Good god AJ, have you turned into "the government needs to provide" for our most precious resources...our children...ugh.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2009 :  11:20:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sarpy County sends the Royals to BFE.
quote:
All indications point to the Schewe farm property near 126th Street and Nebraska Highway 370 as the preferred destination for several reasons. Cost appears to be a major factor favoring the site, as well as its potential to meet the county's goal of spurring significant new commercial, retail and entertainment development.

Besides the ballpark for the Omaha Royals, the Papillion site developer proposed an ice rink, a fitness center, an indoor water park and a hotel, new restaurants, a shopping center, plus future professional offices and homes. Separately, two flood-control lakes are planned for the area.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10643442




Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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admin
U!N!O!

10827 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2009 :  11:26:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ehh...not fond of that proposed site.
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mavfan85
The Writer

USA
287 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2009 :  11:39:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't care where they put the stadium, as long as it is in the Omaha area. I need my baseball to help pass summer along and get to hockey season.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2009 :  08:23:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After thinking about it a little more, I've moderated my position slightly. It's still an Epic Fail for the Royals. They started this journey looking to move closer to a "target demographic"....and ended up being sent even further away. They are getting the stadium they wanted, but are being banished to the outskirts of town.

An independent league team is probably viable now downtown, as midtown, Bellevue, and Council Bluffs fans who aren't as concerned about the level of play as to the accessibility of the event, especially on weeknights. If someone tries an independent league team, they'll have to be well-marketed, as Alan Stein and Martie Cordaro have done a good job since taking over the Royals, and have set the bar high to attracting fans.

This location probably makes the most sense for Sarpy County and Papillion, though, after I think about it. It will attract people and development to a farm field in western Sarpy County and Papillion. (First development will be a gas station at 132nd and highway 370!) It will spur development on the western side of Papillion, away from LaVista and Bellevue. Everything I've read suggests that this site made the most aggressive financial offer to the county; it may be an "offer they couldn't refuse". That's important to Sarpy County, since they failed to get the Legislature to pay for the stadium and haven't offered the "Plan B". If the developer is actually subsidizing the stadium costs, the costs to the county may go down, and if Papillion is offering some of their city programs (TIF financing, sales tax, etc.) to help pay for it, it lessens the load on the county's taxpayers. Sarpy was smart to never release "Plan B"..because the recall campaign probably would have started almost immediately.

In summary: Epic Fail for Royals. Disappointment for La Vista and Papillion. Disappointment for Omaha's Royals fans. A wee bit of optimism for MECA. Perhaps the best case scenario for Sarpy County.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2009 :  10:22:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, this will be the closest site to my house. It's still a longshot in the short term in terms of enticing people to watch baseball there. Could be a few lean years there after the first couple of "newness factor" seasons pass. In the long term, it might not be that bad of a location, but the Royals and the county better be able and willing to weather the storm.

I still maintain that bellevue wasn't a great location. The county wanted development and there was prcious little room for development there and the neighborhood has been in decline for 20 years. Besides simply filling the land and being close to their existing fanbase, I saw no advantages with that site. It was never about growth and development if they picked that area. I guess 126th and Harrison was just too expensive. I was afraid of that.

Let's see what the financing looks like. This could still work, but it's going to be a very long term project out there.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2009 :  10:33:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Epic fail, really??? I think the Royals got the basis of want they wanted. A stadium suited for minor league baseball in Omaha. I look for Werner to purchase the naming rights.

I don't think this was the best site for the Royals now but over the 25 years it very could be. With Gretna, Papillion, La Vista, and great access to Bellevue they will be in an area that is growing and will continue to grow. It will be good for SW Omaha, and being in extreme NW Omaha, it works for me. My brother-in-law who works for the Journal Star in Lincoln has followed this story and said that it was being watched pretty closely down there and that was the site they were pulling for.

I think the AHL coming back to Omaha would stand a better chance of succeeding that a independent team downtown but who really knows. The CWS taking over in June will have a bigger impact on the independent league because their schedule is so short. They can not spread out the home dates as easily as the Royals. Plus as swalled as we feel at Qwest due to size of the venue, it will be much worse at the new ballpark of the indy team. It's going to be interesting to see who MECA can come up with to pony up the 750,000 for the team and pay the salaries and insurance on those players without any big league help.

I really really hope the ice rink out there becomes a reality sooner than later. It would be great to have more options on ice time.

Greg

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mrkaline
Mav Scout in Indiana

Poland
1475 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2009 :  4:51:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This question is only for people who have lived in other places besides the Omaha area. Do you understand it when people from Omaha talk about an area being on the outskirts, out in the sticks, or too far away, when almost everything in Omaha is basically 30 minutes or less away? Am I the only one who doesn't understand the mentality of "I'm not driving 29 minutes to see ......."?
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2009 :  5:52:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i agree with everything that greg s says. It's not a perfect site by any means, but to call it an "epic fail" is kind of shortsighted.

I consider the downtown stadium that will now sit empty for 50 weeks a year (unless you count private school baseball that normally draws 500 people or the beer league baseball that is the AA) to be more of a failure.
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The Basement
Inconceivable!

Italy
870 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2009 :  6:10:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mrkaline

This question is only for people who have lived in other places besides the Omaha area. Do you understand it when people from Omaha talk about an area being on the outskirts, out in the sticks, or too far away, when almost everything in Omaha is basically 30 minutes or less away? Am I the only one who doesn't understand the mentality of "I'm not driving 29 minutes to see ......."?


An hour used to be nothing when I lived in Dallas, now it seems like an eternity. Perceptions change with time.
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