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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2009 :  09:35:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh I'm sure the PCL gets sick of the Royals' scheduling complaints. But I'm also guessing they don't complain too much on ShopKo night, or Library night, or any other giveaway night, where they pack in 15,000 plus. (About 6,000 more than any other team could).

This is all about power. The Royals don't like being pushed around, because if you think about it...even AAA baseball SHOULD (in a normal world) trump a 2 week college tournament. I mean, if you think about it...how many players from AAA eventually make it to the majors? 1/2? How many CWS players total? 4? 5? It's hard to blame them for being p*ssed off.

But with that being said...there are certainly positives the Royals get from the CWS that they never ever talk about. Things like stadium improvements they never have to pay for...and an abundance of post CWS Saturday night games. Stein is just playing his trump cards, because he finally has the upper hand for once.

What he doesn't realize..(or at least didn't for a while), is that he's dealing with two of the most purely evil groups of people in all of sports: Roger's sports Nazi regime locally, and the NCAA. Those are two groups you're probably not going to get to cave in, mostly because they are pure evil and have an ice cold soul. He should have realized this right off the bat, and just moved if all this bothered him so much. He knows (or should know), he's never going to win this whole battle...which is why I still think they'll be playing downtown when it's all said and done...much to the shigrin of the 8 or 9 Independent league fans in town.
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buetane
All-Star Mav

Iceland
2568 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2009 :  10:13:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We'll never get any MLB games here.

I don't think half of AAA players make the bigs. And I think more than 4 or 5 from the CWS do but maybe not. Either way, college sports are hard to trump, and I can't blame the NCAA for recognizing that. I agree, they are evil but hey, if I've got the best goods, then I wouldn't back down either.

I also agree with nouse that I have no problem with the PCL or whoever it is seemingly changing their minds about this issue and trying to rebrand themselves. Look like flip floppers but the sport has changed.

It would be nice if the people of Omaha figured out a way to flex their muscle but I'm sure the second we tried to do that, the NCAA and the Royals leave.
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mrkaline
Mav Scout in Indiana

Poland
1475 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2009 :  11:46:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
AJ, you know I dig a ton of stuff you post, so allow me this one difference of opinion. The "Stein is from out of town, and couldn't for a second..begin to understand the dynamics that make up this town" argument seems a little back woods to me.

Omaha is not a wonderfully unique city that the rest of the world doesn't get, it's a bigger small city, no more, no less. If I owned a business, I would want what is best for my business, not what makes another business happy if I play along.

I live in a city with two professional sports teams, and we have 3 professional baseball teams within a three hour drive, but the AAA team thrives because they have A) Their OWN great ballpark, B) a great owner/director, C) Reasonable prices that make it an attractive family option. The Royals have played at the CWS stadium for a long time now, not their own stadium. It was too big, and "sharing" with the big brother (NCAA)in a new stadium was not an attractive option in my opinion. I loved going to the Royals games when I was there, but nobody else did, I hope that changes with their own new stadium....no matter what city that winds up being.
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MavEconomist
Junior Mav

Tonga
585 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2009 :  8:41:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 2000 U.S. Census counts 767,041 people in the Omaha-Council Bluffs MSA. That makes us the 83rd largest MSA in the country (out of 391 MSAs - MSA is defined as an area with more than 50,000 people). Omaha hasn't been a small city for a long time. It would be helpful if more Omahans realized that.

Sorry, just a pet peeve of my transplantedness.

************************************************
res ipsa loquitur
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2009 :  10:57:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gus Cherry was a great guy and ran the team better than the KC Royals did but he got his crowd by either giving away tickets or having his crew call companies and offering 100 tickets for $50 dollars (I used to take those calls at my previous employer and we bought them). Stein and Co actually have people paying to see the Royals.

As a lifelong Omahan I think Stein and Cordaro are putting on the best product we've seen. They do a great job of keeping the games entertaining and the promotions are the best they've ever done.

Greg

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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2009 :  3:35:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bellevue might be sweetening their bid. Wonder if the others do so as well:

http://omahanewsstand.com/articles/2009/05/19/bellevue_leader/news//doc4a12c9d64c051619500577.txt
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2009 :  4:35:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Apples and Oranges Greg, because when Cherry was using bribes to get people to come to games...they even had a sweeter concessions deal than they have now. That team turned more of a profit giving away 18,000 ShopKo tickets than they ever will making 4,000 people pay to sit in their actual seat.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2009 :  10:27:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with you on that AJ. The concession deal he had made his system work. All I'm saying is that from the perpective of someone that's been attending Royals games since the 70's, I think the current group is the best. They're not from Omaha but this Omahan thinks they are clicking on all cylinders. Each year since they've been here attendance has risen (despite going into a market where people were brought up not paying to see AAA baseball), and level of enjoyment I've seen at the stadium has increased as well.

FYI-Great bottom of the ninth comeback/walk off win by the KC Royals tonight!

Greg


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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  07:03:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

Bellevue might be sweetening their bid. Wonder if the others do so as well:

http://omahanewsstand.com/articles/2009/05/19/bellevue_leader/news//doc4a12c9d64c051619500577.txt


I think Bellevue is in a unique position to do more than LaVista and Papillion. Much of the revenue from Southport is already targeted towards paying off the Cabela's parking lot, so I don't know that LaVista can do anything there. And the 370 location is so far out in the boondocks, Papillion's hands are probably tied up as well.

Being inside the city limits opens up city sales tax and other development tools for Bellevue...that makes Bellevue the leading candidate for the ballpark now.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  08:56:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks like we find out next Tuesday. They are getting the final proposals from the cities. I imagine Keno will be involved big time with the winning bid:

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10637849
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  12:32:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Next Friday, not next Tuesday.
quote:
Joni Jones, chairwoman of the Sarpy County Board, said the board will choose a site at a meeting May 29. Earlier in the week, on May 26, the board will hold a public hearing to allow people to comment on the proposed ballpark and possible sites.

"Everything is still on track," Jones said Tuesday. "We haven't slowed down at all."

That's pretty much the final straw in my book. Jones had always seemed to question the money aspects of this in previous stories, but she seems to have resolved any doubts she had.

I now question whether we'll EVER hear about "Plan B". I'm thinking that Sarpy County is now going to go forward without saying how they are going to pay for it other than "we can do it"...and try again in the Legislature next year.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  1:13:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think we'll have to hear about Plan B. I think they will have to disclose funding before construction starts (especially to issue bonds).

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  6:29:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
gotta love omaha right now as well. paying for a baseball stadium it can't afford by robbing keno profits. Then, in the same breath threatening to raise property taxes in douglas county to pay for the police/fire pension shortfall. Also, we're not too far off from our huge increases in sewer use fees due to the federal mandate of sewer renovations. Between this ballpark (that's going to be used 2 weeks out of the year), the police/fire fiasco, and the sewer situation, the city of omaha is doing its best to bankrupt its citizens. These politicians are so hopeless, it's not even funny. I think things in Omaha are about to get real ugly in the next few years. From where I'm sitting, we're nowhere near "the good life". That slogan is dead.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  9:39:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm confident that the revenue generated by the new DT stadium will more than pay for it's cost.

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  9:43:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nousefouraname

gotta love omaha right now as well. paying for a baseball stadium it can't afford by robbing keno profits. Then, in the same breath threatening to raise property taxes in douglas county to pay for the police/fire pension shortfall. Also, we're not too far off from our huge increases in sewer use fees due to the federal mandate of sewer renovations. Between this ballpark (that's going to be used 2 weeks out of the year), the police/fire fiasco, and the sewer situation, the city of omaha is doing its best to bankrupt its citizens. These politicians are so hopeless, it's not even funny. I think things in Omaha are about to get real ugly in the next few years. From where I'm sitting, we're nowhere near "the good life". That slogan is dead.


25 years of the College World Series makes the new stadium a good decision. It's unfortunate that MECA and the Royals couldn't come to an agreement.

The police/fire pension problem goes straight to the economy. Some decisions by Fahey backfired and made the problem worse, but if you've checked your 401k recently, you know the real reason why the pensions are underfunded.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2009 :  08:40:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The big issue on the pension other than the economy was the spiking. At my previous job only our base base was used for pension calculations. I was salaried but got year end bonuses but those were not counted towards my pension calculations, our hourly employees were not allowed to count any hours above their normal work week for the pension either. I do believe there needs to be a greater contribution from the union members towards this solution. The police has enough funds to send out mailers on the election so they've obviously got discretionary income to put towards the pensions and the system that their union brothers took such advantage of.

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2009 :  12:39:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shatel handicaps the Sarpy County sites, and comes to the conclusion that the Cabela's site is the best one. He dismisses the Bellevue location 5 minutes south of Rosenblatt; yet still finds the 370 site attractive. But as he points out, it's a 20 minute drive from his house in northwest Omaha. The attractiveness is the possibilities of shopping, and yes, an ice arena. But it's as far, if not farther than downtown for most of the metro area, which raises the question of whether people would make that drive more than they make the drive to Rosenblatt and the Zoo.

quote:
The 370 site is high risk, high reward. To do this, you would have to have faith that folks are going to develop 300 acres in a bad economic time. In other words, you have faith things will turn around in the next five years. This is a long-term vision site. You also have faith that people will drive a little farther to go watch Class AAA baseball. Another risk.

The reward is that if this takes off, the combination of baseball, ice and entertainment would be a financial home run.

There is less risk at the I-80 site. There is already development there, and room for more. It not only offers access, itís got built-in marketing appeal of having cars (consumers) drive by it every day. The land now is on a low plain and would have to be raised up several feet. Iím told thatís doable.

http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10638661



Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2009 :  1:23:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shatel has alwasy preferred the Cabela's site. I wonder though since he had Martie Codero with him if he got some insight into the Cabela's site being the current front runner.

On the drive, I'm not sure. Part could be perception vs. reality. I live in NW Omaha and that is definitely a perception that the zoo/Rosenblatt area, along with DT is really far but 370 and I80 is not. When in reality it's not that big of a difference.

Greg
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Bigredmed
Senior Mav

1574 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2009 :  2:58:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

Shatel has alwasy preferred the Cabela's site. I wonder though since he had Martie Codero with him if he got some insight into the Cabela's site being the current front runner.

On the drive, I'm not sure. Part could be perception vs. reality. I live in NW Omaha and that is definitely a perception that the zoo/Rosenblatt area, along with DT is really far but 370 and I80 is not. When in reality it's not that big of a difference.

Greg



With the 144th street widening, you can get to I-80 via 144th and hwy 50 pretty fast from 144th and Maple. If you add in the dog leg to the east to get to Cabelas, you may not be talking much different in miles, but time seems less.

From Millard, its a no-brainer. Anywhere to Q street, then Harry Anderson or 138th to Harrison and Harrison to east to the ball park.

May be perception more than reality, but if the west Omaha families perceive it to be a quick and easy drive, they are going to be willing to take a try.
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Aksarben
New Recruit

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2009 :  7:08:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I rarely attend a Royals game and if the Sarpy County stadium is build in Bellevue it won't increase the chances of my attending a game either. Now build it near Cabela's and I'd consider going to several games a year.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2009 :  11:59:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bigredmed

With the 144th street widening, you can get to I-80 via 144th and hwy 50 pretty fast from 144th and Maple. If you add in the dog leg to the east to get to Cabelas, you may not be talking much different in miles, but time seems less.

From Millard, its a no-brainer. Anywhere to Q street, then Harry Anderson or 138th to Harrison and Harrison to east to the ball park.

May be perception more than reality, but if the west Omaha families perceive it to be a quick and easy drive, they are going to be willing to take a try.


I've driven 144th Street many many times. It is NOT a quick and easy drive (especially around Oak View); in fact, once when we had to go to an appointment on 144th Street in Sarpy County, both my wife and I both remarked simultaneously how much longer the drive was than we thought it would be.


Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2009 :  09:52:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We don't really have a problem on 144th and Center. My wife's Doctor is there in the parking lot of Oakview at Clarkon West. The only time we've had issues is within a 1/2 of 5:00PM on weekdays.

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2009 :  3:33:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The worst bottlenecks are all south of Center at Oak View Drive and Industrial. They've significantly improved northbound 144th Street at Industrial in the last year, but southbound is a pain because the eastbound exits out of the mall aren't well designed. (The "Red Lobster" at 140th & Center limits what they can do at Center, and the railroad tracks require eastbound traffic to be funneled onto 144th street to use Industrial.)

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2009 :  10:23:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have more issues on the backside of the property in the area of the movie theatres and Barnes and Noble.

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2009 :  11:08:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's a bigger clusterf... and that's why Best Buy (and soon Hy-Vee as well) abandoned Oak View. But 144th isn't all that hot along Oak View either.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2009 :  4:11:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/46094077.html

it's getting close.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2009 :  08:49:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm really surprised there has not been more oppositon at these meetings from some Sarpy residents.

Greg
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Telepro
New Recruit

25 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2009 :  11:28:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Last season, 349,376 fans attended Omaha Royals home games, marking the team's largest season attendance since 2001 and making the Royals the largest drawing sports team or event in the metro area for 2008. The average crowd of 5,375 per game last season was the club's highest figure since 2000. Omaha's Triple-A franchise has drawn over 300,000 fans a year to Rosenblatt for 21 consecutive seasons, dating back to 1988.

350,000 fans @ $10 dollar ticket& $20 Concessions = $10.5 million Dollars

7% sales tax on $10.5 million= $750,000 per year

Visiting 30 member AAA team with meals and Hotel @ $200 per person for 72 games/days = $432,000 revenue to Sarpy County Businesses
Sales Tax & Room tax add another $50,000
This is a direct income to Sarpy County of over $800,000 per year.
Most Convention & Visitors Bearuas quote a 3-5 times multipication factor for Visitors. Jobs,additional business etc. This is virtually a no lose for Sarpy County. If they build a multi-tenant (Belevue University) facility like haymarket in Lincoln, they cannot lose.
The "STUPID" move is to tear down the $50million dollar Facility of Rosenblatt and force the Royals to move. Douglas County & Omaha lose; Sarpy County Wins. At least the Royals are staying in Nebraska.

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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2009 :  12:21:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm very supportive of doing what it takes to keep the Royals but the $10 average for tickets seems high to me, along with $20 for every ticket. Maybe that works if you add in souveniers (it seems like they sell alot more now). I know that on average I don't spend a total of $30 per person per game.

I do think it was Rosenblatt's time to go. The Royals were going to leave Rosenblatt sooner or later (they've been pushing a new DT stadium through at least the last 2 owner's, long before the CWS wanted the new stadium).

Greg
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2009 :  12:29:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bellevue University is building their own ballpark at Hayworth Park. It's supposed to open sometine during 2009, although I'm guessing 2010 is more like it.
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