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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2009 :  09:53:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I noticed in yesterday's OWH with the questions to the candidates that it looks like Daub has given up on the Royals or minor league baseball for the new DT stadium. For his plans for it, he mentioned youth andamateur events, such as lacrosse, rubgy, and soccer.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10630791

Shatel did referenc, I believe in one of his on-line Q and A's last week, that he did think they still might get a independent league team downtown.

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2009 :  12:25:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had been waiting and waiting for Hal Daub to make that a campaign issue, but it never happened. I'm taking this as a sign that Sarpy County might actually be able to pull this off.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2009 :  1:47:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am too, to a certain aspect. I'm still with you on Sarpy's financing. As near as I can tell, they have not made a lot of headway in the legislature, and I've never heard what Plan B is, if their legislation stalls completely.

Greg
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2009 :  12:48:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm still not buying it.

If that downtown stadium sits empty 50 weeks a year...for 150 million bucks...Fahey, Roger and the rest of the a-holes who rushed that through should be brought up on charges. The stadium was needed, but driving out your only tenant and bringing in glorified beer league is not what the people had in mind.
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Bigredmed
Senior Mav

1574 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2009 :  4:19:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AJMav

I'm still not buying it.

If that downtown stadium sits empty 50 weeks a year...for 150 million bucks...Fahey, Roger and the rest of the a-holes who rushed that through should be brought up on charges. The stadium was needed, but driving out your only tenant and bringing in glorified beer league is not what the people had in mind.



We got jobbed on this stadium and will be picking bat slivers out of our poop chutes for some time to come. The Royals are set to either get a sweet deal in Sarpy or launch out of here. The MECA board is so politically insulated, none of the members who had a hand in this mess will have even a slight trouble from it. We will end up with the stadium being empty most of the year.

Get used to big city life. A bunch of jokers with political pull get their monuments and we get to pay for it. This process continues till the jokers have Philadelphia'd this place all the while moving more and more of their personal assets to safe locations elsewhere.

Anyone care to post and over-under on how long our dear mayor and his crew will stay in Omaha after the new mayor gets sworn in?
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2009 :  8:55:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Right now, one of the two MECA ringleaders who ran the Royals out of town is trailing in his bid to regain the mayor's office. So there may be some justice after all.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2009 :  9:29:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Royals wanted a smaller stadium a few years ago (as did Creighton.)

Somewhere in the past 49 pages, we discussed how the city wanted to build a stadium with 9,000 permanent seats, and bring in temp seats for the CWS (which the NCAA rejected.)

If things had gone that direction, I'd imagine that the Royals would be gearing up to play in the new downtown stadium. Their ownership made it blatantly clear that they wanted to play in a facility closer to that of Haymarket Park -- that would have things like grassy common areas and a playground for the kids.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2009 :  10:08:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Problem with that plan is that there never was a funding means to do it without the College World Series. In fact, many of the funding mechanisms currently being proposed in Sarpy County were originally proposed for the downtown stadium...and failed.

Speaking of Sarpy County, it seems that tomorrow is the first vote in the legislature:
quote:
The Legislature's Revenue Committee is expected to vote Wednesday whether to advance to the full Legislature an amended version of the ballpark measure. It is the priority bill of State Sen. Abbie Cornett of Bellevue.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10632670

No word as to what the amendments are, and whether Sarpy County has their act together. They didn't in March.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2009 :  10:34:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep, the original idea with moving seats I believe would have worked with all parties involved. Unfortunately, as Mike posted, the NCAA wanted no part of movable seats. My kids love going to games at Haymarket. It's good for me to because when they are jacking around I can still see NU playing.

Greg
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2009 :  4:40:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sarpy will not get their legislation this year, is there a plan B?

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10633487

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2009 :  5:02:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've heard that it's some mishmash of funding via inheritance taxes and other user fees...all of which are currently being used for something else in the county budget. So it could be a shell game where property taxes are ultimately being used.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2009 :  6:23:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Didn't Omaha try to get funding for an arena/convention center from the legislature at one point before the builditomaha campaign?
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2009 :  7:18:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know... I do know that much of LB 615 was proposed three or four years ago to build a downtown stadium, between the Qwest Center and Creighton's soccer stadium. It failed then, and that's why that didn't happen. It took the CWS to ultimately create the funding source.

Here's what was previously reported on Sarpy's "Plan B". Inheritance taxes, keno, hotel taxes...all money currently used elsewhere in Sarpy's budget.
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10586389

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2009 :  06:58:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shatel talks to Alan Stein, who lays out three conditions for playing downtown.
quote:

"The only way would be if, first, they would redesign the stadium so that there were 8,000 seats, which they aren't going to do.

"Second, not make us leave for three weeks in the middle of June, which they can't do.

"Third, take MECA out of the process and let us control the ballpark. I don't think that's going to happen, do you?

"I've tried to explain this to people. It's not about the rent. It's about the size of the park, having to leave in June and control of the stadium. There are so many things that have to be overcome, but you can't overcome MECA, you can't overcome (a bigger share of) naming rights and you can't overcome (a bigger share of) suite sales."

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10633655

Of course Stein is showing inflexibility about the size of the park and the CWS. But those are the only hard positions.

Stein's condemnation of MECA is a bigger problem as far as I'm concerned. Those issues all appear to be items that should be able to be negotiated, but Stein is unwilling to do so.

I understand Stein's point about wanting Sarpy County to work...but I'm thinking that Shatel talked to Stein before Sarpy's plans fell apart in the Legislature yesterday afternoon. Sarpy County isn't dead yet, but there are serious questions as to whether it could even happen.


Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2009 :  09:46:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the Sarpy deal falls through, I don't think DT is a viable plan B. I think Sugarland is far far more attractive to a minor league team than our DT stadium. I would be willing to bet that Stein and Sarpy knew they were facing long odds in the legislature long before Shatel talked to Stein yesterday.

Greg
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admin
U!N!O!

10825 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2009 :  10:06:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I said, the O Royals made it very clear a few years ago that they wanted to play in a stadium that was < 9,000 capacity.

They have a sweetheart deal at Rosenblatt -- miniscule rent, keep concession proceeds, etc.

There was no way MECA was going to give them the same sort of deal at a new downtown stadium. MECA doesn't give anyone that sort of deal. There was no way the city could build a stadium that size.

Stein had hoped that the CWS would stay at Rosenblatt, and the Royals/Jays would play at a smaller ballpark near the Qwest Center.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2009 :  2:37:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The soap opera continues
quote:
Sarpy County's lead lobbyist charges that opposition from Gov. Dave Heineman and Omaha shot down a chance to advance a bill aimed at helping build a new suburban stadium for the Omaha Royals.

Kermit Brashear, the county's lobbyist on the stadium project and a former state senator, said that when it appeared there was sufficient support to advance the stadium bill, "it seemed to ignite the latent opposition of the executive branch and the supposed economic development interests in the state."

The governor, through a spokeswoman, denied that he opposed the bill. But Omaha interests clearly worked against the stadium bill.

Brashear and other Sarpy County officials expressed dismay that residents of the third-largest county in Nebraska might not get "their turn at bat" before the Legislature to argue for the economic opportunity to keep the Royals in the state.

"I'm hoping that Sarpy County citizens and Royals fans will take note where they invest their community dollars and where they invest their votes," he added.

...

A lobbyist with the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce acknowledged that her group had worked to prevent the advancement of the Sarpy bill. Also opposing it were the City of Omaha and the MECA, which will manage the new downtown Omaha baseball stadium.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10633487

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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adammd
Sophomore Mav

463 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2009 :  3:28:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I love it when a lobbiest objects to other parties 'lobbying'
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  08:55:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This whole thing isn't even about Sarpy county or the Royals for that matter. if that new downtown stadium sits empty 50 months a year (or even worse..get's beer league baseball as a tenant)...then somebody should hang.

I'm only 1/2 joking about that. Quite possibly the biggest bait and switch clustlerfudge in the history of the city.

Sit Stein and Roger in a room. Lock the door. Get a deal done. If they don't get a deal done, drag their unconcious bodies out into the parking lot and get two guys who can get it done. This whole thing is just supid.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  08:59:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like Sarpy might get some support from Omaha Senators if they pick the Bellevue site:

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10634566

That's my least favorite site but as long as they are in the metro (DT Omaha, any of the three Sarpy sites) I'm happy. I just can't stand the thought of Omaha not having affiliated professional baseball.

Greg
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MavEconomist
Junior Mav

Tonga
585 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  09:33:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Stein just needs his ego massaged. He and the Royals will always be second-class to the CWS and deep down he knows it.

Still, I agree with AJ. Lock him and Roger in a room until it gets done.

************************************************
res ipsa loquitur
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Bigredmed
Senior Mav

1574 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  10:42:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Stein was on 1620 last night and basically said that the PCL tied his hands and said that after 2011, there would be no tolerance of a 3 week break for the CWS. Basically, he said that neither the Royals or any other PCL team could play in the stadium.

Apparently this schedule deal for the CWS is costly to the team in that they lose a couple of home dates and is costing other teams as well.

Another example of the "NCAA gets to keep all the money, and you get to keep all the bills" syndrome, just played out on a league that has no problem with pushing back.
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  10:49:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MavEconomist
He and the Royals will always be second-class to the CWS and deep down he knows it.


Actually, I think the problem is that he doesn't know it. You never saw these sorts of headbutting issues with the city when UP and Gus Cherry owned the team, beause they know this would always be a Husker/CWS town, and they would simply be a sideshow.

Stein is from out of town, and couldn't for a second..begin to understand the dynamics that make up this town...let alone run a successful business.

This is why you see all the wacky promotions ect from them...which is why none of that crap works here. People here like to think of their teams as major league quality. They want to sit back and consider themselves as a step below the bigger cities in quality of entertainment etc.

Dizzy bat races won't cut it..which is why it's an absolute joke that Roger thinks he can fill the summer dates downtown with Independent league games...which are pathetic and lame in small communities..let alone when you have to pay 6 bucks just to park.


PS - I don't buy for ONE SECOND, Stein's BS about the PCL not letting the Royals leave for 3 weeks. They've done it for FOURTY YEARS. Not just the last few summers...FOUR DECADES.

That's a crock of horsesh*t.
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MavEconomist
Junior Mav

Tonga
585 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  11:33:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
AJ is right (did I just write that? ), if the PCL had a problem with the Royals being away from Omaha for 3 weeks they would have pulled the plug YEARS ago. Or, at minimum, we would have heard something OFFICIAL from the PCL and not just from Stein.

Besides, how could this possibly cost the PCL or any other team? The Royals are the ones away from home which likely means more home dates for other PCL teams. The rest of the PCL are likely MAKING money because of the CWS.

************************************************
res ipsa loquitur
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  12:20:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well, I'm not saying that I totally agree with the "PCL won't allow it" idea; however, just for the sake of argument, remember that the PCL has only been the ones calling the shots for the Royals since like 1996. So, the idea that "the PCL has allowed it for forty years" isn't entirely accurate. Gus Cherry and the City of Omaha cut their deals for years with the American Association. I don't have any idea how that really differs with the current leadership of the PCL, but to me it's not out of the realm of possibility that the PCL is taking a hard line on this. Minor League Baseball has grown and changed a ton since Gus Cherry owned the team. Teams went from playing in worn down dumps to pretty much all of them having shimmering new stadiums (just like MLB by the way).

So, my point is just because something was allowed for 40 years doesn't mean you can count on it going forward. Leagues change, league commissioners change, owners change, cities change, and overall circumstances change. I have no doubt that the PCL has been a factor in pushing the Royals to push Omaha for a new stadium for the better part of the last decade. This "we won't allow 3 weeks of travel" may be playing a bit of hardball, so to speak, to make the downtown stadium seem totally off the table and unworkable, but it's all a card in the greater agenda and that is the PCL and the Royals want a new MINOR LEAGUE stadium in Omaha that fits the needs of their sport.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  12:51:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MavEconomist

AJ is right (did I just write that? ), if the PCL had a problem with the Royals being away from Omaha for 3 weeks they would have pulled the plug YEARS ago. Or, at minimum, we would have heard something OFFICIAL from the PCL and not just from Stein.

Besides, how could this possibly cost the PCL or any other team? The Royals are the ones away from home which likely means more home dates for other PCL teams. The rest of the PCL are likely MAKING money because of the CWS.

************************************************
res ipsa loquitur


I think because the Iowa Cubs are the Royals travel partners, that hurts the I-Cubs as well.

But frankly, this is something that can be negotiated, though at a cost to Omaha. Simply play a series or two in Lincoln, or do what they do in college football, play those games as "money" games on the road. Yes, that costs the Royals money, and Stein should be compensated for it.

It makes a hell of a lot more sense than spending $25 million of state tax money to build a second stadium.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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mavaholic
Sophomore Mav

USA
342 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  1:24:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've wondered about the use of haymarket for a series or 2 during the CWS as well. I've also wondered if the royals do get their other stadium or leave, how about tracking down the most poorly attended series in MLB and offering to host it at the new stadium. Could probably draw a decent crowd for a random weekend series. Even see if KC would host a series up here. (not likely after the refurb of Kaufmann)

Do you believe in miracles? YES! --Al Michaels
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  1:48:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nousefouraname

well, I'm not saying that I totally agree with the "PCL won't allow it" idea; however, just for the sake of argument, remember that the PCL has only been the ones calling the shots for the Royals since like 1996. So, the idea that "the PCL has allowed it for forty years" isn't entirely accurate.


Actually, yes it is.

When the PCL absorbed the American Association in 1996, they took on the AA's Branch Rickey as the commish, and added other AA representatives as well. The old PCL were teh ones who lost executives and decision makers...the same American Association people who put up with the ROyals schedule, were and are the same ones in charge of the PCL today.

I'm not right often..but trust me on this.

Plus, other markets do in fact get more home games out of the deal, except the Iowa Cubs. Much like UAF is UNO's travel partner, the I-Cubs often rotate with Omaha in traveling. In other words..when Fresno or Vancouver or whomever would come to Omaha to play a 4 game seires..they'd often bus to Des Moines right afterward to save money.

It's a pain in the a$s I have no dobut..but it's not a new problem for them. The Royals are not innocent here. Not by a long shot.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  3:40:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wasn't aware that the same people are running the PCL as did the AA for the last 40 years. Like I said, it's not something that I keep up on too much. Thanks for the info though.

Still, do you think it would be out of the realm of possibility for the PCL leaders to reverse course on this. I still think there is some validity to my thoughts about minor league baseball's attempts to rebrand and repackage itself and part of that being the atmosphere created through the small intimate stadiums.

Look at how much MLB has changed since the 80's. They made a conscious effort to recreate the atmosphere at their ballparks with the move away from the cookie cutter stadiums and into the retro, fan friendly, red brick ballparks. I think this is something that the PCL is pushing for and has gotten for many of its teams and wants for Omaha. Like I said, I have no doubts that it makes scheduling a pain and it is part of the issue; however, I think they are using it as an iron clad excuse here. "Build them a stadium they don't have to share or lose the team. period." It's not something that the city can negotiate very well and I think that's why they are using that argument.

So, I guess my feeling is that it's not really about the travel, it's just an excuse to get them the true "minor league ballpark" they've been asking for for a decade.
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  3:44:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
a weekend or two of mlb baseball would be awesome. I don't know if the owners would ever go for it though. Actually, it would probably have to be early season mid-week games since those are the most poorly attended for many teams in MLB.
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