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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2009 :  12:56:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think if the Sarpy deal dies, Sugarland moves to the top of the list for the Royals. All indications are the PCL wants no part of the DT stadium. I noticed in the MECA letter there was no mention of a independent league team.

I do think Sarpy needs a really good land deal from a developer to make it work for the county financially.


Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2009 :  1:34:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Like I said, I did hear Stein on the radio about a week ago saying that the legislative pieces weren't do or die for the sarpy stadium by any means. He did say they have backup plans. What those are, I do not know.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2009 :  1:37:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sarpy goes with DLR for Stadium design:

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10598750

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2009 :  1:46:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wonder at what point in this process will the public actually be given any indication of where these sites are that they are choosing from. Will it be when they narrow it down to three? Will it not be until they emerge from a back room with a final site picked out? To me, this is a crucial part of this process and should be given some public discussion and should not be done in a back room fashion. I think to most people that the site by cabela's is a foregone conclusion. However, that does sound like it is the most expensive site. Cost is only one factor in this though.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2009 :  3:55:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I bet we don't hear much on the final three until the approved date of April 22.

Greg
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2009 :  09:02:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nothing too exciting here:

http://www.ketv.com/news/19070621/detail.html
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2009 :  12:42:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

I bet we don't hear much on the final three until the approved date of April 22.

Greg


Some rumor might come out, but I don't think Sarpy County wants to tip their hat during negotiations.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2009 :  12:47:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, and BTW...Sarpy County isn't progressing very well in other legislative bills...even one's that aren't related to the ballpark.
quote:
A proposal to give counties ordinance power was introduced on behalf of Sarpy County officials. They have expressed frustration at lacking authority to ban parking on snow-emergency routes, prohibit golfers from relieving themselves on the course and reduce false security alarms in the sanitary and improvement districts that dot the suburban counties.

Such SIDs are outside city limits. Cities, unlike counties, already have the power to pass ordinances and levy fines.

Legislative Bill 532 was made a priority by freshman State Sen. Scott Price of Bellevue. In an amended form, the bill would allow counties to enact ordinances in only five areas: parking for snow routes and access by emergency vehicles, abandoned vehicles, graffiti, false security alarms and public indecency.

Price, who lives in an SID south of Bellevue, said he's seen fire trucks and ambulances rushing to emergencies that become blocked by cars parked haphazardly in the housing subdivision.

But while Price argued the bill was a public safety measure, a group of senators led by Omaha Sen. Mike Friend attacked the idea as an unreasonable expansion of government power.

Other opponents said a joint city-county government in Sarpy County might be a better solution.

"This is a power play by Sarpy County, and this is a bad idea," said Friend, who moved to postpone consideration of the bill for two weeks, which he said would kill the idea this year.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10600478

If the Legislature isn't going to allow Sarpy County to handle parking complaints and graffitti...they sure as heck aren't going to pay for Sarpy's ballpark.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2009 :  1:37:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure if the bills Sarpy is trying to get passed for their stadium will pass or not (my gut says no and they go with a not made public yet plan B). I don't think you can say that because an unrelated bill will not pass can means the others won't. A lot of this depends on whether or not you can attract other part of the state to what you are trying to do (not sure if these would appleal to communities out west that want to do something similar off I80), or if you do a vote for our bill on this and we'll vote for yours on that.

I do think something needs to be done on the whole public indecency thing. I do think you should be able to do something about golfers that are openly urinating behind your back yard.

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2009 :  9:54:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Read the objections again...and you'll see why the Sarpy County funding bills have no shot in the Legislature.
quote:
This is a power play by Sarpy County

quote:
an unreasonable expansion of government power


And this was over the simple idea of preventing golfers from defecating in public.

Now...let's up the ante about a gazillion times, with proposals that we can agree to disagree about the merits of, unlike issues of public safety.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2009 :  10:43:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And yes, I was wrong about Southport. It looks like Southport has held off on development to make room for the Royals stadium. But it's probably going to be the costliest site of all.
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10601631

quote:
The Southport West developers are not willing to donate the land - theirs is some of the priciest in Sarpy County - but they would discount it to get the ballpark, Hoth said.

By moving into Southport West, the Omaha Royals could capitalize on population and income demographics that attracted Cabela's and the hotels, Hoth said.

"They're going to enhance the value of their franchise by being placed here, versus in the middle of a cornfield," he said.

Of course, since the other development already exists in Southport...the multiplier that people are touting doesn't exist.

Where else?
quote:
Lee Sapp is waiting for word on whether his 21.75 acres near Wehrspann Lake will make the cut.

A minor league ballpark on his land, Sapp said, would be visible from I-80, accessible from several highways and offer fans a pretty view of the 246-acre lake.

Sapp said he is willing to donate a portion of the land.

"I don't think we're going to have a final answer till the 20th," he said.

Duane Dowd said this week that his property at the northeast corner of I-80 and Nebraska 370 is still in the running. He owns 300 acres in that area.

"I'll make the cut with my barn site," Dowd predicted. An old barn is all that stands on the agricultural property.

He is not offering free land there, but the property has good visibility and access, he said.

No free land at I-80 and Hwy 370 either.

Oh....and Bellevue wants to play as well
quote:
Bellevue's Mayor Ed Babbitt said he hopes the final cut includes the 62-acre Kennedy Town Center property at Kennedy Freeway and Chandler Road in his city.



Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  08:33:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had heard rumors that they had discussed the "Kennedy Town Center" property. What could the Royals possibly gain by placing their team anywhere near that area. It's not much different, IMO, than the type of area where the Royals are playing in now.
I don't know how to put this nicely, but businesses have been leaving that area for 15 years. The whole demographic of that location is now relatively poor compared to many other areas of Sarpy County.

What does Sarpy and Bellevue plan on gaining from a spot like the Kennedy Town Center, other than filling it, which is something they've been trying unsuccessfully to do since there was supposedly a Wal-Mart going there (but didn't) in the early 90's? The whole Fort Crook area is a ghost town. Is this their play to have an anchor to redevelop the area? Next thing you know, Southroads will be a mall again. ha.

Wehrspann Lake? That is so out of the way even for most people in Sarpy County. I can't imagine that you're going to lure too many people from Omaha all the way out to 144th and I-80. As I've said all along, for this work, I think it needs to be a stones throw across the county line and fairly close to a large number of suburban homes. The South Port site satisfies both of those needs. A ballpark at Wehrspann lake doesn't really help on either front, IMO.

Really, I think it pretty much needs to be near Cabela's or it's not going to work.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  09:37:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The multiplier does exist. The arcticle states that at Southport they have 93 acres of undeveloped ground, the ballpark would use 12 of that, and if they go forward, Marcus theatres would use 11. Your multiplier would be what's left (and concievably whether or not Marcus goes forward). The article even mentions the 350,000 to 400,00 of retail and office space between a stadium and the theatres, along with the trolley and such.

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  12:38:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greg S

The multiplier does exist. The arcticle states that at Southport they have 93 acres of undeveloped ground, the ballpark would use 12 of that, and if they go forward, Marcus theatres would use 11. Your multiplier would be what's left (and concievably whether or not Marcus goes forward). The article even mentions the 350,000 to 400,00 of retail and office space between a stadium and the theatres, along with the trolley and such.

Greg


Ummm...every acre of that land is going to be developed anyway.

Multiplier: 0.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  1:18:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well, I suppose that even if all of that land is going to eventually be developed anyways, it could increase its value and also create more demand for much of the other undeveloped land in that immediate area.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2009 :  10:22:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eventually would it be developed yes. At the quality that they are shooting for with the Royals, I seriously doubt it. Without the Royals it could be years and years as well. In this economy new developments are few and far between. Even ones underway are having a hard time finishing. The developers obviously agree as they are agressively pursuing this. I remember talking about Southport last fall and everyone telling me it was too late the project was all lined up and if the Royals/Sarpy didn't move on that site it would be too late and there was no room for them. Look at what has happened since. Nothing to speak of out there.

I've actually got a good friend that is an owner in a bar/restaraunt in the area and with the Royals they are expanding. Without them, not happening.

Greg
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2009 :  08:37:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Baseball panel discussion at UNO:

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10609706
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2009 :  11:03:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"It's a fascinating time to look at the whole baseball picture in the city," Greer told about 15 students in Dave Ogden's Baseball, Culture and Communication class on Monday night. "Time shows that somebody loses. It will be interesting to find out who that is."

The loser would be either the new 24,000-seat downtown stadium, which helped Omaha secure a 25-year contract with the NCAA to keep the College World Series in Omaha, or the planned 6,000- to 7,000-seat Sarpy County stadium.


but, but, but, I thought the downtown stadium was supposed to be fail proof. I thought that it was a no-brainer and didn't need a tennant in any way to succeed and make a profit. All of the massive profits from the CWS were supposed to pay this baby off and the Royals and Creighton were merely the difference between paying it off a a few years sooner rather than later.

By the city's own admission earlier this year, whatever happens in Sarpy should not affect the downtown stadium one bit. They made that clear when they said that they do not need the royals to make this work.

is there a little backtracking going on? Or, is the OWH just engaging in a little bit of rabble rousing to divide the city on this issue and make it seem like it's a win/lose scenario.

It would be typical of the OWH. You don't have to read too many articles from them to see that they are taking sides on the issue.
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adammd
Sophomore Mav

463 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2009 :  1:27:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nousefouraname

"It's a fascinating time to look at the whole baseball picture in the city," Greer told about 15 students in Dave Ogden's Baseball, Culture and Communication class on Monday night. "Time shows that somebody loses. It will be interesting to find out who that is."

The loser would be either the new 24,000-seat downtown stadium, which helped Omaha secure a 25-year contract with the NCAA to keep the College World Series in Omaha, or the planned 6,000- to 7,000-seat Sarpy County stadium.


but, but, but, I thought the downtown stadium was supposed to be fail proof. I thought that it was a no-brainer and didn't need a tennant in any way to succeed and make a profit. All of the massive profits from the CWS were supposed to pay this baby off and the Royals and Creighton were merely the difference between paying it off a a few years sooner rather than later.

By the city's own admission earlier this year, whatever happens in Sarpy should not affect the downtown stadium one bit. They made that clear when they said that they do not need the royals to make this work.

is there a little backtracking going on? Or, is the OWH just engaging in a little bit of rabble rousing to divide the city on this issue and make it seem like it's a win/lose scenario.

It would be typical of the OWH. You don't have to read too many articles from them to see that they are taking sides on the issue.



Without saying they are right or wrong, the baseball panel consisted of:

"self-proclaimed baseball purist Donald Greer"
"Martie Cordaro, the Omaha Royals' VP & GM"

I would expect a certain slant to this baseball 'panel'. FWIW, I thought the article was terrible, slant or no slant.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2009 :  7:27:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There's no doubt in my mind that the World-Herald has shown a bias towards the downtown stadium; they've received a lot of information first. That being said, other members of the media have shown a much greater bias against the downtown stadium and for the Sarpy County stadium. (Kevin Kugler once apparently wore a "La Vista Royals" t-shirt to an on-air remote broadcast!)

The value of 25 years of the College World Series makes the downtown stadium a no-brainer. Omaha was going to need to spend this kind of money eventually, and paying $30 million to fix up Rosenblatt for 5/10 years so that you could defer the new stadium was insane.

Mr. Greer never addressed how Sarpy County was going to pay for a new ballpark. If you ignore how you pay for these stadiums, of course a Sarpy County ballpark with the Royals makes more sense than a downtown stadium that either has independent league baseball or sits empty after the CWS. But since there is no workable plan released to pay for a Sarpy County stadium, a Sarpy County stadium remains merely a pipe dream of some.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2009 :  10:27:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Mike in that how Sarpy is going to pay their share on the stadium is a big question that we don't have a definitive answer for. I don't think it's a pipe dream, at least I hope they would not be spending all of this time and money on something they haven't got figured out but I honestly don't know if they do.

Greg
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  07:01:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Three finalist sites:

Southport by Cabelas ($$$$$$)
Hwy 370 and 126th Street
Kennedy Town Center in Bellevue

The 370 and Kennedy locations are free. Southport is going to make Sarpy pay.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10614979

The 370/126th street location has "Epic Fail" written all over it. The Kennedy location is intriguing...but it's 10 minutes south of Rosenblatt.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  08:33:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the fine people of westmont would finally have a team to call their own.

that site would be close enough to papillion to draw some of them and possibly close enough to gretna, but I agree you'd never get ANYONE from anywhere north of Q St. to ever set foot out there.

I'm not a fan of the Kennedy Towne Center location. As you put it, it's 10 minutes south of their current location. It's developed into a somewhat poorer area. Also, if this is about creating a development synergy around it, this area fails. There is precious little to develop around there. All of the development in bellevue is going on south and west between cornhusker and twin creek. Unless they are planning on using this to somehow redevelop ft. crook and the southroads district (doubtful since it's technically not the same area) all this does for that land is fill it which they've failed to do since the mid 90's.

because of that, I'd actually rank the development spots this way...

1. southport







2. 126th & 370

3. Kennedy Towne Center
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  08:39:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What is wrong with 370 and 126th street, and why are you such a Sarpy County hater Mike?

It's right off the interstate. There is tons of room out there. ALl the Westies can make it there in less than 15 minutes. Personally, I think Bellevue makes more sense, but nobody asked me.

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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  08:59:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got with:

Southport, then 126th and 370, then Bellevue.

I had not realized until reading Shatel's column today that Creighton would not be able to play all of their games DT if the Royals were there. With Creighton being closer to becoming the FT tenant that would still leave the door open for an indy team though, just not AAA.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1921

Greg
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  10:48:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Creighton playing Drake on a windy March afternoon sounds just as good as 72 nights of major-league caliber baseball.

I know you agree with me Greg, just making sure that looked as dumb when I typed it as it sounded in my head.

Don't even get me started on the Indy leagues again.
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  12:02:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
AJ you and I are in complete agreement on Indy league baseball. I've seen the T-Bones in KC and the Salt Dawgs in Lincoln and I was completely underwhelmed.

Greg
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  12:28:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
with creighton, possible mo valley tourney, theorhetical CU regional twice a decade, CWS, 5-6 concerts, and this weird proposed fall college baseball showcase, I think they see the stadium as being quite busy and I think that's all that they care about. It's for appearances.

As they've said all along, the stadium makes money with or without the royals or an indy league team. At this point, they just want to be able to say the Omaha stadium is used x (insert number over 100) days per year for all of these miscellaneous events. Whether that constitutes almost major league baseball or creighton vs. the weak sisters of the Mo Valley in front of 200 people is really of little consequence to them as long as they can say the stadium is being used and still makes money.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  12:46:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AJMav

What is wrong with 370 and 126th street, and why are you such a Sarpy County hater Mike?

It's right off the interstate. There is tons of room out there. ALl the Westies can make it there in less than 15 minutes. Personally, I think Bellevue makes more sense, but nobody asked me.



It's 3 miles away from the Interstate, and a 10 minute drive from the I-80/680 interchange.

The downtown stadium (that's so far away and too far to drive to) is a 12 minute drive from the I-80/680 interchange.

Oh, and there are at least 6 interchanges closer to the downtown stadium than the closest interstate interchange to 126th Street and 370.

I admit, I'm not that familiar with Bellevue, but I'd rank the sites Southport, Bellevue (because there are actually people who live nearby, it has freeway access, and the city of Bellevue might actually be able to help make the financing work), then 126th street.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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nousefouraname
All-Star Mav

2307 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  1:03:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if they were really wanting to spur continued business growth in Sarpy, it's too bad they couldn't have found something on 370 between 48th-72nd. There's tons of empty land there, but I don't know that any of it was available.

There has been a substantial investment in Shadow Lake Towne Center, and I can't imagine that the investors are currently pleased with their return on investment. I know it's a bad economy, but the place is literally half empty and it's been open over two years. A simple look at their website shows that they are still touting restaurants that opened over a year ago as "new" and all they have listed as "coming soon" is some gymboree like thing for kids and a tuxedo shop. real exciting.

Something in that area would be fairly close to Twin Creek, Shadow lake, and market Pointe which are the areas that bellevue, la vista, and papillion have focused on. Why not try to make those areas successful and bring more businesses there than try to push even more new and unnecessary development to the fringe farmland areas between papillion and Gretna. It makes no sense to me.

I guess my feeling is just focus on the development that's already started. It just bugs me to see tons of half empty strip malls all over the city and the promise of more to come.
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