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CaseyMav
#10

Botswana
2337 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2008 :  1:18:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Minor league baseball is totally different from the CWS, Stein said. The College World Series, as with Major League baseball, is all about the competition. The minor leagues are more about "the fan experience," Stein said.


I disagree. I would venture to say that a large number of CWS attendees couldn't tell you who was playing, during the game.

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admin
U!N!O!

10827 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2008 :  1:30:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CaseyMav

quote:
Minor league baseball is totally different from the CWS, Stein said. The College World Series, as with Major League baseball, is all about the competition. The minor leagues are more about "the fan experience," Stein said.


I disagree. I would venture to say that a large number of CWS attendees couldn't tell you who was playing, during the game.



I agree.

Furthermore, I thought it was interesting that the O Royals stated that Haymarket Park in Lincoln wouldn't meet the needs of a AAA team.

Wasn't this the same outfit that wanted Omaha to build a smaller ballpark (like Haymarket) for them in downtown a few years ago?

What exactly do the Royals "need" in a ballpark? Des Moines built Principal Park for $12 million back in 1992 for the Iowa Cubs...
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bugeater69
New Recruit

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2008 :  6:39:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"What exactly do the Royals "need" in a ballpark?"

Unless it's fireworks night I think the park down the street from me would be fine. Both fans could just bring their lawn chairs.

The few times I have ventured out to a Royals game there were maybe three to four thousand people in the stands. They could fit in Haymarket easily.

A smaller stadium would do them good.
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UNOMav
Aiming for #1

British Indian Ocean Territories
964 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2008 :  8:57:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Based on the NCAA's wish list the stadium at Rosenblatt is not feasible. To do what the NCAA is looking for will destroy the neighborhood...which is precisely what the pro-Rosenblatt people claim to love so much. You are likely removing homes about 3 blocks to the west of 13th and at least 1 or 2 blocks to the south of Bert Murphy. The "quaintness" of that location would be destroyed. Reality is that the CWS isn't a little event anymore. It has grown beyond the space that Rosenblatt has available. Only a moron would build a new stadium in that location.

Many of the features the NCAA wants are already in place downtown so why destroy that area? With Rosenblatt gone the site can be used for a hotel and some additional space for the zoo. Sounds like the best of both worlds.

If Omaha isn't careful all this bickering will cause the NCAA to look elsewhere and I have no doubt that there are other locations begging for a shot at the CWS.

Still aiming for #1.
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twiztid1
Sophomore Mav

288 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2008 :  9:01:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Exactly. No matter how this thing shakes out, the CWS, as an event, will never be the same. The alcohol and partying will be gone. At least in downtown there are bars and restaurants to go to. If they stay at Rosenblatt, the atmosphere around the stadium and the actual tradition of the stadium will be gone anyways.
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admin
U!N!O!

10827 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2008 :  11:38:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Will the NCAA give Omaha a 20-year deal if we meet all items on their "wish list"...?

Isn't that the crux of this entire debate within our community?
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Greg S
All-Star Mav

4101 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2008 :  4:34:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know you can't meet the the hotel requirement at Rosenblatt, unless we build a bunch out there.

Greg
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admin
U!N!O!

10827 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2008 :  6:29:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But will meeting all of the NCAA's "suggestions" result in a 20-year deal (presumably through 2030 or so)?

Isn't that why we're willing to spend $140 million on a baseball stadium?
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2008 :  8:02:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by admin

But will meeting all of the NCAA's "suggestions" result in a 20-year deal (presumably through 2030 or so)?

Isn't that why we're willing to spend $140 million on a baseball stadium?


I think that will be part of the conditions of agreeing to build this. If the NCAA says "5 years" if we spend $140 million, then Omaha tells the NCAA to smurf themselves.

In fact, last week's Weird-Harry seemed to think that Omaha might get a 30 year commitment from the NCAA.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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admin
U!N!O!

10827 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2008 :  4:12:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I saw the 25-30 year number.

I'd be very surprised if a new stadium alone would secure that kind of deal. But if it does, then more power to the Fahey Administration.
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hackermav
Minister of Antagonism

1039 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  09:36:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So my question now is, what does Gernandt have on Suttle to make him do this, or what is Suttle smoking?

He doesn't want a new stadium now, he wants it in 25 years when we ahve the money to pay for it. (and by the way that is the roundabout time it would take to pay off the bonds we would need to issue to build it now, so you are just confirming that we could pay for it without tapping property taxes)

He wants 5 counties to pay for it. And Iowa too? Why would you throw out this stupid idea, and promote it as a real option, without even running it up the flag pole to the governments that you are counting on to get it done?

Why do we have morons running this county, city, state, and country? I hate our democratic process sometimes.
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icesoar
New Recruit

USA
29 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  10:16:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The CWS is the slowest week of the year for businesses in Omaha. The only ones that benefit from it our the the vendors down at the CWS and the Hotels.

Instead of putting the burden on us to pay for this we should be putting a renovation/new stadium tax on Hotel rooms and CWS tickets. Let the ones that benefit from having the CWS pay for it.



soarice
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  10:55:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We all benefit from the CWS...some of us just don't realize it. The people who come to the CWS eat in restaurants and shop at stores, paying sales tax. Some employers staff up, paying additional payroll taxes into the city coffers. And with the additional revenue that these people make, they turn around and buy more stuff. Several years ago, it was estimated that the CWS resulted in about $35 million in business.

The hotels are already paying for several things that benefit us. For example, part of the Qwest Center is being paid for by hotel taxes. That's great...but guess what, we all benefited from the Qwest Center. One of the concerns is that our hotel tax is one of the highest in the country, so we've probably tapped that out. We might be able to increase it a little, but not enough to pay for this.

There are huge questions as to how to pay for this, which we need to address. But in all the debate, people keep forgetting that the NCAA asked for significant improvements to keep the College World Series. Some of those improvements are impossible to accomplish anywhere but downtown. Jim Suttle's proposal was almost like waiving a white flag of surrender and saying "sorry, NCAA, we can't do it. Good luck in Indianapolis, Oklahoma City, or Orlando. We'll miss you."

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  12:01:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm right quite often about this stuff....and I really wish I wans't this time. However, truth be told, this is going exactly like I said it would.

Somebody better jump up and take over this thing, because the longer King Roger and the d0uchebags from MECA mess with it..the closer we are to losing the CWS. ANYTHING built in South O will not work, because there are no hotels and the Bohemian Cafe can't handle EVERYBODY's restaurant needs. (mmmm...steamed duck)

I can not possibly say this any more clearly....if you think the NCAA is just sitting back and doing nothing here..you're crazy. Meet their demands, or they will be gone. This could be the biggest crisis facing city administrators in three generations. They better put their egos aside...fire Roger's a$s and get something done...quickly.

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admin
U!N!O!

10827 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  12:20:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In 1 year, the mayor and city council seats are all up for re-election.

I live at the northern edge (50th and Grover area) of the district that includes Rosenblatt Stadium.

Jim Suttle (a Democrat) is considered a possible candidate for mayor.

This part of Omaha doesn't have the wealth/power people that Districts 5, 6 and 7 have, but these voters are likely to be very motivated at the ballot box if they lose Rosenblatt Stadium. In my neighborhood, there are at least a half-dozen of those "Save Rosenblatt" signs strewn around in various yards.

There is a reason Fahey tried to lace this deal up last year -- he knew that a lot of political posturing was going to take place 12 months out from a primary election.

In addition to Suttle, I am sure that Hal Daub has entertained the idea of trying to get his old job back.

Any Democrat that wants to become mayor in Omaha has to win in "blue collar country" -- and a big part of that in Omaha is District 4 (my district). This is the area of town that put Fahey over the top in 2000.

I don't get the vibe around this part of town that people want to lose Rosenblatt Stadium.

The main problem for Fahey is that he bungled this thing last year. When he did that, his political opposition started to smell blood and circle like sharks.

Making a gesture to South O -- even if it isn't the "ideal" -- is a good idea for Suttle from a political standpoint.
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  12:24:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If/When the NCAA leaves, there won't be a single politician between the River and Lincoln left with a job.

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admin
U!N!O!

10827 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  12:33:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AJMav

If/When the NCAA leaves, there won't be a single politician between the River and Lincoln left with a job.



It all comes back to this...

How many years would the NCAA give if we built a new stadium in downtown vs. building a new stadium at Rosenblatt?

Mayor Fahey has suggested 20 to 30 years for a downtown stadium. No one affiliated with the NCAA has agreed or even intimated that would happen.

Do we seriously believe that anyone with the NCAA is going to pull the trigger and commit to Omaha until 2030 or 2040?

I'd love for the NCAA to commit to holding this event in Omaha until I am 65 years old, but I am simply not sure that is going to happen -- regardless of the locale of the stadium we build.

I think that is the crux of this debate.

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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  12:41:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Depends on what the stadium has tied to it. The key is suites and restaurants, along with the elimination of the giant beer-soaked party-zone that has engulfed 13th street.

If the NCAA had their own stadium in the town that has had the thing for 50+ years? Yeah..I don't think 25-30 years is out of the question at all....especially if you give them input.

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icesoar
New Recruit

USA
29 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  12:57:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by West O Mike

We all benefit from the CWS...some of us just don't realize it. The people who come to the CWS eat in restaurants and shop at stores, paying sales tax. Some employers staff up, paying additional payroll taxes into the city coffers. And with the additional revenue that these people make, they turn around and buy more stuff. Several years ago, it was estimated that the CWS resulted in about $35 million in business.



The esitmated $35 million in business came from an absurd system to gauge this amount. People were interviewed at the CWS and were asked how much are you spending? This is where they get this so-called $35 million.

Everyone does not travel to come to the CWS. Most of the fans are in-town attendees. Tell me how this brings extra money to the city when this money is already here? They don't travel to go shop -- they stay at the vendor sites at Rosenblatt.

This money is not going into anyone's coffers and restaurants. I am telling you that business city-wide is at its lowest for the 2 weeks of the CWS. It only benefits a a very few people.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  12:59:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dennis Poppe has hinted that the NCAA would make a long-term commitment to Omaha if Omaha made a huge commitment to the CWS. But the number has never been said. So we're left with the leaked comments.

There are so much disinformation out there, it's probably going to take a public ultimatum from the NCAA to get this done. In other words, Dennis Poppe needs to go to a press conference and say that Omaha has a a few options here. Something like:

(a) clean up the area around Rosenblatt and make some incremental changes, and get a 5 year extension. But there are problems at Rosenblatt that aren't going away and that you'll need to address eventually.
(b) rebuild Rosenblatt and you'll get 15 years. We still want more hotels around Rosenblatt so teams, officials, and fans don't have to drive to the games, though.
(c) build a brand new stadium in an area surrounded by hotels and restaurants, and you'll get 30 years. That's what we really need.

Nobody is going to believe any of our local politicians anymore.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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admin
U!N!O!

10827 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  1:05:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but I don't know if the NCAA is willing to cede that sort of bargaining power for three decades -- regardless of the stadium we build.

If they do, there are going to be strings attached. Whether it is agreeing to future improvements or an increase in revenue, the city will be paying more than the $140 million that is currently on the price tag for initial construction.

The city's original plan was to build a new stadium with 9,000 fixed seats and bring in temp seats for the CWS each year. Dennis Poppe "poo-poo'd" that in a Tom Shatel column, so that was off the table.

I'd trust Fahey more on this "20-year deal" if his administration hadn't made so many miscalculations along the way.

- They underestimated the size of the facility when they introduced a plan for a 9,000-seat stadium
- They overestimated MECA's willingness to give up a parking lot for the stadium
- They underestimated the political motivation of South Omaha residents
- They underestimated the general backlash all of it would cause with Omahans in general

Forgive me if I am a little skeptical on a 20-year deal (which has apparently grown to 25-30 years) at this juncture.

Fahey has quickly lost his "political capital" in this debate. With his re-election campaign a mere 12-months away, his political opponents are going to do everything to thwart him along the way.

When October rolls around, they'll be lining up to run against him. He has already run up the ire of the police union with their retirement system, irritated South Omahans who like Rosenblatt, ruffled the feathers of restaurant owners, and stirred the pot with people in eastern Omaha who want their sewers fixed.

That is partly why we haven't see a proposal yet from the city on a new (or improved) home for the CWS. A lot of posturing is taking place.
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  1:15:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There's no time for that Jon.

And here's the thing...the NCAA won't give the city some big countdown clock. There is not giant clock downtown that says, "You have this long to come up with a plan." I would be shocked if they werne't already talking to Indy or New Orleans or some other place without telling anyone.

How it will happen is this....

- The CWS will come and go with all sorts of stories/posturing/pouting etc going on.
- Dennis Pope won't say a word about it...all the while calling Omaha "great" "we love it here" etc etc.
- The CWS will go on with a giant cloud over it's head.
- NCAA will continue to say nothing publicly.
- August/September...when baseball winds down and football gears up, the NCAA will announce, "Whoops...sorry but our hands are tied. It's been great. At least you have football and a big swimming pool".

And that will be that.

Poof.

Gone.

It doesn't matter what the city underestimates or overestimates. All that matters is they have less than a year probably to get a solid plan in place before the NCAA tells them to pound sand. The sand is literally pouring through the hourglass...and the more these political idiots and the South Omaha d-bags continue to drag their feet...the closer to the end game we get.



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The Judge
Sophomore Mav

Germany
415 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  3:14:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought the NCAA wanted some type of answer/presentation/estimate by sometime in April? My memory is kinda fuzzy (too many Jagerbombs) but there is some "official" clock ticking.

"Don't get eliminated": Kenny Blankenship-MXC
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hackermav
Minister of Antagonism

1039 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  4:56:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
April 30 if I remember correctly.

We are going to have to build a new stadium eventually. 2 years or 10 years from now. Rosenblatt will not make it forever.

Paying $140 million for a 30k stadium will cost us $200 million in 10 years. I am all for saving money now, because one of two things will happen. 1 We lose the CWS and $10/$20/$35 million in business every year (whoever's report you believe) or 2 We are going to be paying taxes for a new stadium. So let's just get it done.

I caught a little of the MECA hearing today, man I hate Daub and his 'I am the voice of reason and of the people of Omaha' attitude. Does he just not get the fact that he is the reason we cannot afford to build this new stadium? I mean I love the QCO, but it is expensive. I cannot remember him ever talking about the sewers when he was in office. Kind of ironic that his baby MECA/QCO is now his job.

I just wish that this whole thing gets to the real powerplayers in this city. The ones who don't need their face on tv all day every day. Those who support the Zoo, who gave the private money to get the QCO going, those that are trying to fix the school issues we have. I hope they just get together and tell the mayor, the city council, and MECA, 'you know what you little children, you are ruining this whole thing for the rest of the city because no one wants to play if they don't get what they want. Now you little children sit down, shut up, and find a way to make it work downtown, because we are going to be the ones paying for it, not you.' We just need someone who really cares for this city to speak up.
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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  5:04:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think those "citizens of substance" are trying to stay out of the mudslinging for now. Supposedly there will be an announcement next week, and I'm hoping that all of these issues are addressed:

* Additional parking to replace the parking lots that will be occupied by the stadium.
* Traffic flow plans to address those issues.
* Financing plans.


Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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hackermav
Minister of Antagonism

1039 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2008 :  08:37:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Sokol said it was unlikely MECA would reverse course and accept a stadium on the convention center and arena grounds.

"If some magical dust is sprinkled," Sokol said, "and they come here with a draft of a contract that would allow us to run the thing, we would have something to talk about."


And now we hear exactly why MECA is against the stadium on 'their' grounds.

We'll be okay with it if you give us more power.
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AJMav
Minister of Anger

Iran
4503 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2008 :  09:57:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I didn't realize there was an April 30th deadline.

Whoa..this is way worse than I thought. Also, listening to Sokol, Daub, Roger and the rest of the d-bags that run MECA...I don't think I've ever seen a more meaningless group act so high-and-mighty for absolutely no reason.

For YEARS, this town has been very progressive..doing the right thing, taking risks when risks have to be taken. Unless somebody unifies teh entire group pretty damn quick...there is no way in hell they are going to pull this off.

This is the first time since all of this started that I really believe the CWS will leave.



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West O Mike
All-Star Mav

Christmas Island
5308 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2008 :  11:12:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think Sokol realizes that Fahey is calling his bluff now...
quote:
There were signs on Friday of compromise between Omaha Mayor Mike Fahey and the head of the board that runs Qwest Center Omaha.

Metropolitan Entertainment and Convention Authority board chairman David Sokol told KETV NewsWatch 7 that he would support a new baseball stadium in the Qwest Center parking lot if the city lets MECA run the stadium and its surroundings.
http://www.ketv.com/sports/15315175/detail.html?rss=oma&psp=news
quote:
Fahey said he doesn't want to hurt the Qwest Center and he doesn't want to fight with MECA. He said he also doesn't want to alienate the NCAA, and that's why he prefers a new stadium downtown over the idea of renovating Rosenblatt.

"We've listened to what the NCAA says about being in close proximity to hotels and restaurants. We think that makes sense. You have to question whether you put in $70 or $80 million into a 60-year old facility. Does that make good sense?" Fahey said.



Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com
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admin
U!N!O!

10827 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2008 :  12:36:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those of you that voted for the formation of MECA back in 2000 (or whenever it was) and give them a 90-year lease, made a mistake (I voted against that provision).

Rather than have a professional management company operate the facility, we have an outfit that is structured using the cronyism that exists in this city.

If they're willing to nearly derail the College World Series, you can only imagine what they'll do when it comes to other negotiations.
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mrkaline
Mav Scout in Indiana

Poland
1475 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2008 :  08:57:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Trying to follow this nonsense from far away. If MECA gets it's way, does that mean that future CWS negotiations will include the NCAA, the city of Omaha, and MECA? If the City and MECA are this cranky now, wait till the next negotiation.

Hey CWS, Indianapolis is on line 2.

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